Greg:

Only 52% of millennials reported feeling empowered to drive change within their organizations. Of that 52%, 89% said they feel a sense of belonging with the organization. Imagine that.

(SOURCE: Deloitte, Striving for balance, advocating for change, 2022)

 

Hello and welcome to the Imagine That Podcast. I’m your host, Greg Weimer, founder, partner, and wealth manager at Confluence Financial Partners. Each month we’ll explore new ways to help you maximize your life and your legacy and meet some extraordinary people along the way. So, if you’re looking to get more out of your life today and legacy tomorrow, let’s get started.

 

Welcome. This is Greg Weimer with Confluence Financial Partners, and this will be an, this will be an interesting, this is like, take two. I don’t think we’ve done a 2.0 yet in our, in our podcast, so this will be fun. Some of you may remember that it was in 2019 we did a podcast with four of the millennials in our firm, and we talked about how to communicate with millennials. Well, the good news is I think we’re over that. We know how to communicate pretty well.

 

In fact, the millennials in our firm teach us how to communicate even better, and they’re very good at it. And every once in a while, we have to remind them talking to someone isn’t a text or an email. But other than that we’re, we’re over that. I think the opportunity today and the reason to listen to this podcast or, or, or one is just to give you, it’s been an interesting three and a half years.

So let’s give, let’s give the listeners a peek under the tent of Confluence Financial Partners. So just what’s going on here, What’s happened in the last three years? And then, two, you know, I mean, clients should demand, and I would think they want to know how we’re building this organization for the next 10, 20, 30, and 40, 50 years. So we’ll talk about that and let’s talk about like in the last three years, some of the things we’ve done as a team to build our organization for the future.

 

And then how do you build a team? Like, like what have we done to really make sure everybody has a great work-life balance but is still really driven and passionate and fired up when they come, listen to this, when they come into the office, which is, I think, a little bit different right now. And then we are planning/goal crazy in here. So let’s talk a little bit our pla— about our planning process. And maybe that’ll help some folks that are listening think about how to plan in their lives or in their businesses.

 

So first, we have four, the same four, the same team. It’s a, it’s a, it’s an encore presentation. We have our four millennials and I’m gonna have them introduce themselves, Not that I don’t know their names or, and all about their family and by their families have grown. These, these individuals in front of me have added four children in the last three years. So I guess that’s work-life balance. And but, but if you could go around and the reason this will be helpful also, it’ll help you attach their voices to their names. So the first one’s voice would be pretty easy to distinguish from the other three. So Katie, do you want to start?

 

Katie:

Sure. thanks Greg. My name is Katie Montagazzi. I am now the director of marketing communication here at Confluence. I’m a sort of a financial planner. And I wanted to add as well, there are more than just four millennials at Confluence.

 

Greg:

There’s a lot, right.

 

Katie:

After three years.

 

Greg:

Yep. Right.

 

Katie:

For the sake of this podcast.

 

Greg:

Right, right. And, and, and Katie is a CFP and Katie still works with clients. It’s really, and so she has a unique background in that. She’s, she’s, she certainly is in charge of our marketing communications, which is her passion, but she also knows a lot about our business and as a CFP and part of having a great team is you find, you get, you hire great people and then you put ’em where they, where, where you think they’re gonna be able to shine. So Katie has transitioned a little bit and expanded her responsibilities. Gregory?

 

Gregory:

So I am Gregory Weimer. I’m our Chief Operating Officer and also wealth manager here at Confluence now. In terms of designations, I’m a CPA, I’m a CFP like Katie, and I’m also a CEPA, so I’m a Certified Exit Planning Advisor, is what CEPA stands for.

 

Greg:

Yeah. And so we’ve, we’ve, we’ve been blessed to have several, many, bunch, like whatever clients that have benefited from that, right? That they exit their business and we help them with, with the exits. So, so that, that has been really helpful. You have that designation. You and I should probably do one is like, what’s, what’s it like working with your dad? Right? Cause—

 

Gregory:

That’s a whole ‘nother story.

 

Greg:

That’s, that’s another podcast. But yes, but everybody told me when we were about to do it, how hard it was gonna be. And it, I don’t know. You probably feel differently. I don’t think it’s been that tough.

 

Gregory:

So far, so good.

 

Greg:

So far so good. It’s been great. I mean, so, but it’s really important. And Gregory runs the day-to-day operations. So, cool.

 

Chuck:

Right. Good morning. My name’s Chuck Ziants. I’m a wealth manager at Confluence, and I hold a Certified Financial Planning designation.

 

Greg:

Yeah. And Chuck works on our team and, and works with a lot of our, a lot of our clients. And you and I have known each other longer than you’ve been here though, so it’s, it’s.

 

Chuck:

2013.

 

Greg:

Yeah. So it’s been really good. And, and I’ve never seen you without a lot of energy. And so like he, everybody’s nodding. He brings energy to the game. He works really well with our clients. Very detail oriented. When you go in with Chuck, meeting with Chuck, you, you just, you, you’re gonna know every single detail before you go in. Randall?

 

Randy:

Yep. I’m Randy Holcomb. I’m the director of our wealth planning department here at Confluence, and I’m also a Certified Financial Planner. Just carrying on the theme here.

 

Greg:

We hired Randy. I kept hearing there’s these good kids out at Grove City. So how many years ago was that? Eight. Eight years ago. So I went up to Grove City on one of the recruiting deals and, and Randy was one of the people we met. And you’ve done almost everything right? So if you don’t know who does this, it’s probably Randy. Not only does he do a lot of the financial planning, but, but he’s been incredibly helpful just with a lot of the transitions, a lot of the different things. So he’s sort of like the glue of the organization.

 

As a peek under the tent. Like, you know, it’s been three and a half years since, you know, we, we had one of these podcasts. If you could say the one thing in the last three and a half years that would surprise clients or you’d think clients would want to know about, For me, it, it feels the same. Like, it’s just all, it’s, it’s just all blur frankly. It’s just we keep going. Right. we don’t really slow down very often, but is there a moment that you think some of the listeners would be interested in?

 

Gregory:

Yeah, I’ll go first. I mean, I think when you look at the resources we’ve added over the last three years, and it’s hard to believe, it’s exciting for the next three years, but we’ve brought a lot of expertise in house. So, you know, we have 401K department and Brian, our 401k specialist in house. We have insurance now we have a director of investments with a CFA. So there’s a lot of hires we’ve added that to us probably feel gradual, but for a three-year period, it’s a lot. So I, I think that’s been awesome.

 

Greg:

Yeah. You know, you used the word, you said expertise and you said in-house. And, you know, we have a, we’ve always had a lot of expertise through our relationship with Raymond James. You know, they, they’re a custodian. We own ourselves, but they’re a custodian. But it is a blessing for us and for our clients to have the expertise down the hall, not in some office in a faraway land that’s at an 800 number, and you are totally vulnerable to the person that picks up the phone. So we, we, we have it in house. So we have it, we have a, we have a team of experts here. We keep adding to that expertise. I feel like we’re putting together a band and you just keep putting together great people and music happens. It’s what we’ve been doing. I couldn’t agree more. I think that has been, and that’s been way, it’s been fun. We we’re, we’re not adding expertise, we’re adding really good people. Anyone else?

 

Randy:

I think RIA has been huge for our business in terms of the things it’s allowed us to do. I know we’ve talked a lot about that with clients and communicated quite a bit about it. But just having the independence to build our business for our clients. And that’s, that’s the most important thing. I think that’s been huge.

 

Greg:

It, it is. If you, if you watch the flow of people, if you watch a flow of expertise, you know, the banks are the banks, that, that’s a different animal, a little bit. But people tend to, people from our industry don’t go to a bank, right? So, so when you watch the flow of people there, there’s great big national firms and there’s great people at those firms, and a lot of ’em around here are my friends, so not criticizing them in any way. But those people tend to go to what’s called independent. And then independent tends to go RIA. And so it, it, it does not go the other way. And we are now at the RIA stage, and we think for our clients, that’s, that’s been wildly beneficial. It’s the difference of having an iPhone versus a flip phone. We can put whatever technology and apps we need to together to make sure that we can customize the experience that we want our clients to have, not some person in a faraway land. So Randy, I couldn’t agree with — that’s been, that’s been really important behind the scenes that, that some people may not be aware of. But it’s been extraordinarily important if we’re trying to build a future to take care of our clients for the next 30 years.

 

Katie:

I have two things. One, not just adding resources and associates, but we’ve moved into a new building in the South Hills of Pittsburgh. Built a building, office. Moved into the PPG office downtown. And when, now we have an office in Naples. So logistically we’ve grown—

 

Greg:

By the way, by the way, two of the three were done during Covid. Right.

 

Katie:

Right. <Laugh> Not great timing, but it’s great now. And then second, I wanted to mention this past year we were nominated again as one of the Fastest 50 Growing Companies in Pittsburgh. And we were the fastest financial services firm in Pittsburgh last year. So growth has been the theme.

 

Greg:

Yeah. sometimes people say, Why is that good for our current clients? If you would see the resources and what we can do for clients today versus five years ago. It’s, it’s, it’s significantly better. So it certainly benefits new clients, obviously, and new associates, but our current associates and our current clients have benefited greatly from our growth. And by the way, you cannot keep talent and you cannot attract talent unless you’re growing. No one wants to work for an eroding organization.

 

Chuck:

And I really think that people would be shocked at how much we collaborate. And we really leaned into the challenges the last, you know, three, four years.

 

Greg:

Yeah. I was with some great clients yesterday and I said we probably do more business in the hallways than in the offices. <Laugh>, Right? I do laps around the office and we just get a lot done in the hallways. So Chuck, I agree that the collaboration’s been a big deal.

 

Chuck:

The five-minute drive-bys have been invaluable.

 

Greg:

Yeah. Yep. Fly-bys. Fly-bys. Is that what they are?

 

Chuck:

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

 

Greg:

They’re fly-bys, Yeah.

 

Chuck:

Fly-bys.

 

Greg:

Yeah. And so we do a lot of those. So anyhow, that’s great. I mean, I think that’s a great peek under the tent. And I hope the listeners just, just really hear us say clearly that we are, we are working hard to build an organization that’ll be here for their families. I’m always amazed I said, Oh, here, here a prospective client. So I work with them. I’m like, Oh, right, Really? Why? And it’s like, one or two people, they’re 60 years old and they’re gonna take care of my family. And I’m like, just do the math. They’re not gonna take care. It’s like math. This isn’t an opinion. It’s like math. They’re not gonna take care of your family.

 

So the good thing about here is we have people in their twenties that are very talented. We have people in their thirties that are very talented, forties, fifties, and sixties. And so we, we will be here to take care of families. And we think it’s important that we have that diverse group. And also, it’s important that we stay private so clients can rely us, rely on us in the future. Let’s go to — I don’t know, I may be biased. I think we have an incredible team. I really do.

 

Not, not to make it all about Confluence, but, but more importantly, let’s take it, let’s talk about what do you think we’ve done as an organization that allow, has allowed us to build such a truly, and this is the correct word, driven team? And I honestly don’t know the answer, so I’m fascinated to hear.

 

Randy:

I think we’re pretty upfront at the, from, from the get-go of here’s what the expectation of is of a Confluence associate. I have the privilege of whenever we have a new hire that comes on, I get to do the brief history of Confluence and welcome to Confluence presentation. And one of the things we talk about is the culture of goal setting, of improvement, and how we truly believe that individuals are at their best and happiest, and it’s best for our clients, if we’re constantly improving. And so the expectation is we’re gonna do a five-year plan, we’re gonna do quarterly goals, and it’s gonna be part of our DNA. And I think we end up because of that, we end up attracting people who want that, that excites them.

 

Greg:

So be upfront and honest with what you’re trying to— when you’re hiring someone. I mean, my wife and I started dating, I don’t know, 35 years ago, and I said, Hey, here’s what I want out of life. What do you want out of life? Let’s save each other a bunch of time. So we compared notes, matched up. Good. So if, if you, so if someone wants to say like, Hey, I’m here to coast, that’s great. But there’s a great firm for you — it will not be Confluence Financial Partners. Right? So I think that’s a good point, Randy, just, and thank you for doing that. We, we are very upfront if we’re, we’re, we’re about improvement. What else?

 

Gregory:

And I think even taking that a step further, it’s become part of the interview process also, right? I mean, we’re, we’re talking to people during interviews about: how can we help them succeed? And, you know, being driven, being goal oriented is part of it. And we want to it to be the right fit for potential employees too. So if they’re someone who wants to come in and just check the boxes, they realize it may not be a great fit also.

 

Greg:

I think that’s right. Yep. I think that’s, I think that’s fair.

 

Katie:

So Gregory and Randy mentioned about getting the right people on the bus, as we always say. But I think once you’re, if you’re an associate of Confluence, you also, you don’t just join the organization with that growth mindset or goal-setting aspiration, but we all hold each other very accountable. If somebody’s kind of like falling behind, nobody has an issue saying like, Hey, what’s going on? Like, let’s get it together. So I think all of us do a really good job of actually being a team and carrying everybody along with us on the journey.

 

Greg:

Yeah. And, and it is a team. I mean, and it is accountable, but it’s weird. Like not, it’s, it’s not like, you know, it’s not like in a principal way, it’s just that we, we have a standard and we create it and everybody works really, really hard to live up to it. And as I look around the room, I think I’ve texted every one of you at nine o’clock at night. I’ve texted every one of you at five o’clock in the morning. And I know that sounds crazy, but you know, you don’t always need to respond. But, you know, it gets, and we communicate that way. And it’s, it’s really amazing, you know, the communication and accountability and idea sharing. I remember this was probably 40 days ago, there was a, there was an idea that came out of our Pittsburgh office, our downtown office, and I thought it was something we needed to move quickly on. And I texted Randy and Gregory and said, How quickly can we get this done? And what do we need to do, get to get it done in the next 30 days? It was amazing how quickly you guys moved. You did it in 31, which was okay, but it was, but, but <laugh> But it was good. I mean, we moved, right? And so it’s just how we, it’s just how the organization is.

 

Chuck:

And I think too, I think the, the big thing is, is the leadership here in everyone here takes a vested interest of your success in the office and out of the office. Like that’s one thing that I’ve taken away over the years is, is they care about what you’re doing in the office and outside, which is great. They, we all take a vested interest in each one of our families. It’s great.

 

Greg:

Yeah. It’s, it’s not, that’s— Thank you for pointing that out, because it could make it sound like it’s all about just work, work, work. And it’s not true. I mean, balance is, if you need to be home for your, for your family, you should be home. If you need to be in the office for your office, for the firm, you should be in the office. But that’s, that’s true balance. So we do look at it as a group of families. In fact, in fact, that just reinforces the whole, we don’t do, we don’t work. And this is just how we live our lives, right? We don’t work and we don’t play. We just live. And I think that’s a, that’s different than how most people think. There’s a lot of conversation out there about people not wanting to come back into the office. Not at Confluence, but there’s a lot of conversation out there about people not wanting to come into the office. And you know, you guys are like looking at me, you know, but it’s like, that’s just not — did you want to come in, why’d you come in? Has it made us better with you being in here?

 

Gregory:

Yes and yes.

 

Katie:

We’ve been back in the office since — help me — spring of — no, winter 2021.

 

Gregory:

We went through phases.

 

Greg:

Right, right, right. We were very, Yeah, right. We—

 

Katie:

We were—

 

Greg:

I mean like, like, you know, when there was a sharp spike, we’d be like, okay, we, everybody’s got to get, or even in the office, right? We had a couple breaks and, and so we’re like, okay, let’s, let’s get out of this office and away from each other’s germs for a week or two. And then at first we did, right, for a month or something like that. But yeah, so, but I was— But you’re making, go ahead.

 

Katie:

Yeah. So there was a common theme when we were home working, you know, we were working, but I would call like Chuck, I would call Neil. I would call Gregory just to say hey, because I missed seeing them and just collaborating, whether it be personal or professional. And then coming back in the office, it was like a breath of fresh air. Being home was cool for a little while and then it was like, wow, I really, I feel like we were missing something. And we got back in the office, we were able to collaborate better, circle around the client, do meetings. There were just so many things we were missing out on being home. So I think we can all agree that we were excited to come back. And then I just wanted to add too, still to this day, it happened to me last week, somebody said, Oh, are you guys back in the office? <Laugh>? And I wanted to laugh. I’m like, Well, what have you been doing? Right? Yeah, we’ve been back. It’s been great. Yeah, we’re, you know, it’s, nobody’s had any big issues or anything. Right. So it is interesting. I think we’re kind of the minority in the world.

 

Greg:

Of, and at the same time, and this is true of the fathers also, but as a mother of two young boys, there are moments that it is very convenient and necessary that you work from home.

 

Katie:

Yep.

 

Greg:

And that’s okay.

 

Katie:

Okay. Yes, with children, there’s never a dull moment. I’ll say that. <Laugh>

 

Katie:

But no, it’s great. Yeah. I mean, all of us, I can speak to all of us. We all, you know, if you have something that’s going on at home in your personal life, you are more than welcome to do what you need to do. And whenever it’s time to work and be here, we’re here.

 

Gregory:

Yeah. Our business is also about relationships, right? So for us, we want to sit across the table from our clients and I think we miss that. It’s nice using Zoom or Teams, whatever you’re using for a virtual meeting. But, you know, at some point it’s nice to look at someone in the eyes in the same room. And after a while I miss that. It’s nice to still have the tool, but that’s a big part of our job.

 

Greg:

It is. And, and I, I, I would think the clients are listening. I would think you expect us to be in the office. It’s amazing how many people aren’t, but it’s, I would think you expect us to be in the office and we, look, we, we, Zoom has been great. We have clients 42 states, so we need to use Zoom from time to time. And that works great. But you, you, but it’s, it, it, it is nice to see people face to face.

 

So we actually are in the process of now I know this is this, by the time, hopefully this is by the time this is out, hopefully these meetings will be accomplished. But we have a challenge in here. We want to meet with, we want to do a thousand interactions with our clients. A thousand face-to-face meetings, a thousand Zoom for the people that are out of town. And because we know this is a tough time, we know this is, to Gregory’s point, we know this is a relationship business and we are gonna put that goal out there and say engage, engage with the clients. Let’s make sure that we are out there communicating with our clients in this difficult time.

 

Chuck:

Moral of the story with that plug, let’s meet.

 

Greg:

Let’s meet <laugh>, Let’s meet, let’s meet. Yeah.

 

Katie:

Oh, I was just gonna add something. Doing marketing and communication internally at Confluence, a lot of my, so like clients I would say are advisors, Confluence advisors. So being in the office, the most effective communication happens whenever you’re in the office, belly to belly, eyeball to eyeball, phone calls are great, email’s, great, whatever. But to be physically in the same room as somebody is the most effective way we communicate, I would say.

 

Greg:

Couldn’t agree more. And there are people out there I’m sure that are saying, Yeah, but we are just as effective outside the office. We are not judging you. You may be in a different business than the wealth management business. Frankly, when we were out of the office for a little bit, we were just as productive also. But it was because of the relationships we built when we were in the office. So what I would challenge people to think about is when you fast forward to 20 years, if you’re not in the office, will you have those same relationships that if you’re forced to go outside the office, that you’ll still be productive? We are benefiting from the relationships we’ve built. When we stop building those and we have to go remote, I would, I would challenge the thought that would be that be that productive. And I think for the, the, this, this is, this is an old guy dad advice, if you’re 30 something, get in the office because you need to be around other people to learn from the mentors. We were with a partner of a law firm that will remain nameless in Pittsburgh and you know, he’s okay. I mean, he is, he’s, you know, close to retirement. But man, if I were a new attorney, I would want to be next to this attorney because he’ll just make you better over time.

 

Chuck:

Iron sharpens iron.

 

Greg:

So earlier you all, you said we’re, we’re about goal oriented and we do think a lot about goals. And we do think, and, and you know, as I was saying it, we’re in the planning business, I would hope we think a lot about goals, it’s what we do. I’ll run into financial advisor, say what are your goals? Like, Oh, I don’t have any goals. I’m like, you’re in the goal business for goodness’ sake! Like how don’t you have any goals? You know, I’m just gonna try better. Well that’s cute, but like goals help. Or you just, you know, so— I think it’d be interesting for folks to, you know, from a planning standpoint, maybe, maybe this converts into some listeners lives. Could you talk a little bit about, when you say we’re goal oriented, when you, you know, when, when you, when you say we’re very, you know, intentional about what we do, do you want to just give a couple bullet points about what that means inside of Confluence?

 

Gregory:

I’ll start at the firm level because I think it’s, it’s individual and from a business standpoint. So we, we start and we’re very open about what Confluence’s five-year plan is and what the goals are each of those years to get there. So we start with the five-year plan. We know where we want to be high level in five years, but then we break that down on how we’re going to get there. And I think what helps our associates is we’re open about that. And so everyone feels like they’re part of the growth and they can make their own goals to build on that. So, you know, whatever the planning department needs to do or retirement plan services, everyone’s a part of the same goal and rowing in the same direction.

 

Katie:

I was just gonna add in the last three years we’ve added directors of all of our different teams and within those five-year plans there’s, you know, the Confluence five-year plan and then we all have our responsibilities. Like what’s Katie owning? What’s Gregory owning? And then that filters down into our five-year, one-year, quarterly, daily tasks. So I think Greg, you always say people like 10 years from now or like, how did I get here? Well it’s probably because you didn’t plan <laugh>, so you just ended up wherever you ended up.

 

Greg:

Right.

 

Katie:

So we understand that and we’re being very intentional with not just business, but professional, professional things, personal things. I don’t know, it’s just the way to do it.

 

Greg:

Yeah. So, so just to play on both of us and to bring ’em together, I mean, they’re all part of the same process. You know, Greg, we, we get together and, you know, at the firm level and we, we think about, okay, so here’s where we want to be in five years and we work backwards on it. Okay, so what do we have to do to get there? And so that’s quantitatively that’s, that’s, that’s qualitatively like what do we need to do to get there? And, and it’s, it’s the plan. And then we show it to all of our directors and then the directors put together their plan. And then we show it to the advisors. Then the advisors put together their plan. So, so we absolutely have a five-year plan. And, and by the way, the five-year plan is about how do we improve the experience to our clients? And so when we add this expertise and we add these services, it’s not happenstance. I mean it’s something we’ve, we’ve absolutely thought about because we’re saying, okay, if we were a client, what would we want in five years? What would we want and demand this firm to look like? And that’s how we work on our five-year plan.

 

Randy:

Like Katie said, to go a little more into it, you take the five-year plan and then you say, What do I need to get done in the next year, next two years? You know? And then from there you say, what about this quarter? What do I need to do in the next 90 days? What are the high-impact activities? And then boil it down even further. What do I need to do today to accomplish this quarterly goal? And you know, we have a culture at Confluence around that. And we, it’s not just something you talk about, there’s templates for your quarterly goals. There’s, there’s templates for, you know, plan tomorrow today for your daily tasks. And I think most of us use those things and that’s a big part of our DNA and it shows, you always say, Greg, it’s amazing how often you write something down and then it happens.

 

Greg:

It happens.

 

Chuck:

It’s about identifying the big rocks, right?

 

Gregory:

It’s amazing when you actually accomplish goals too, right? That helps. So you continue to plan and want to plan. When we’re at the end of this year, when you look back at 2022, the rocks we had, the big goals, they’re all accomplished. And we set out a goal to accomplish them and we did. And whether that’s bringing in an in-house insurance specialist, whether that’s adding new technology, we’ve done it for this year. And so the buy-in is there. It’s not just words on a piece of paper that we hope we can accomplish.

 

Greg:

At one point, the, it would’ve been adding the, the, the investment, someone to run the investment group. At one point it had been a South Hills office. At one point it would’ve been launching Naples. At one point it would’ve been, you know, becoming an RIA. And these things are all critical, but they were, they, they existed because they’re all quarterly goals. And, and by the way, I think the other thing that’s important is it also allows you not to try to do too much at one time, right? Because you break things out and say, okay, this is all great. If we try to get it done all this quarter, nothing will happen. If we do it over the next year, we’re gonna get, so we’ll move faster by moving slower.

 

Chuck:

I mean, what do you all say if we do three really good things a quarter in five years.

 

Greg:

Boom, game changer.

 

Chuck:

People are gonna call us lucky, right?

 

Greg:

Yeah. Actually if you do, like, and then with the other one, right? If you do your most important thing every day, just do your one most. I call it my “no matter what.” No matter what, I got to do this, no matter what. I got to like, call this person, you know, meet with this person no matter what. If you do your “no matter what” every day and every day you do your “no matter what,” that’s aligned with your five-year goal.

 

Katie:

Yeah. We never really do it in a vacuum either. So whenever working through our quarterly goals, we’ll share it with the team. And again, if your goals are not maybe the best of your ability, somebody will call you out and say, Hey, you’re probably gonna do that anyhow, so why don’t you think bigger?

 

Greg:

Yeah. That’s called like breathing oxygen. That’s just living, that’s not like changing the world.

 

Katie:

Yeah. Some, sometimes people think tasks are goals and they’re not.

 

Gregory:

You have to have personal goals too, right? We we’re talking about the job and work, but we do a lot of things within Confluence to help people personally. So whether it’s a fitness challenge that we’re doing the fourth quarter of this year or earlier this year, doing a wellness challenge that isn’t only fitness, maybe it’s reading a book or a spiritual ga— whatever it is. There’s a lot of personal goals too that we have and we help associates accomplish.

 

Greg:

Yeah. So the one right now, so they, it’s, it’s, it’s around health and the winner is served dinner by the losers, but—

 

Katie:

Of their choice.

 

Greg:

Of their choice. Yeah. So, so if it’s someone that, you know, maybe if it’s one of our single individuals, you know, they may have some of their friends over and have steaks and beer, you know, whatever steaks and wine, whatever they want to do. If it’s if it’s someone that says, Hey, I just want to have a candlelit dinner with my, with my spouse. So then the, and then the other, the losers have to serve that. There’s only 15 or 20 people in this one, right?

 

Gregory:

Yeah.

 

Greg:

So the losers have to serve the winner. So that’ll, that’ll be fine. And they cannot get it catered. They have to, they have to, they have to make the dinner. So that’ll be fun.

 

Katie:

Then coming full circle, you mentioned the beginning of the podcast, Chuck is very detail oriented.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

So Chuck is super serious about this contest and he’s sitting at this table with a gallon of water that he’s supposed to consume on a daily basis.

 

Gregory:

How many ounces? How big is that?

 

Chuck:

Gallon. One hundred and twenty-eight ounces.

 

Greg:

So he’s been running to the restroom so often his productivity is plummeting. So, so, but it is fun to challenge each other and I think it’s part of the team, right? It’s so it is also interesting when people say like, how, how’s everyone, so, like how as, you know, one of the leaders of the organization, how do you keep everyone so motivated? And I think it’s such a funny question because I don’t. Like, like I think what’s interesting about our team is: they keep each other motivated. Like it’s, it’s a team. And so everybody has a standard that they hold each other to the standard and you know, you just hire the right people and that, that’s very, very helpful.

 

Randy:

It’s the power of a culture. It can— pushes everybody forward.

 

Greg:

It’s everything. And by the way, I don’t know how you do a culture if no one’s in the office. I know you can do an activity every quarter, I guess that’s cool. But I don’t know how you do a, I don’t know how you do that, right? So are we have, we have a culture because we’re together, we say we’re a culture of improvement and growth. And if I’m listening to this, I’m, and I’m a potential associate, which we’re, we’re, we’re always looking for great people, I think the most important thing I do in my career is, is, is attract and retain good people. I mean that’s, that’s like what I really focus on. That’s one of the things I really focus on. So, you know, we’re trying to make all of us the best versions of ourselves.

 

It’s been three and a half years since we did the first podcast. What do you think the skill set, the thing you learned that, what benefited you the most? How are you different today? However you want to answer it.

 

Randy:

I’ll start. So for me it’s the ability to specialize more and more. So when I started, I think that was what the sixth person at Confluence. And so I did a little bit of everything and I, I still do a little bit of everything. I’m involved in a lot of areas, but now, being the director of wealth planning, as we’ve grown, we’ve been able to specialize in more areas and, and get people doing more of what they’re best at. And put everybody in position to win. And that’s been, that’s been phenomenal. I know I’ve enjoyed that, motivates me. And I, I’ve seen it all around the organization as we continue to grow.

 

Greg:

It’s so cool to be able to, it’s so cool to be able to do more of less, right? I mean, and, and, and Randy with the financial plans, I mean you work with all the financial advisors. So the, the, you see way more than the typical financial advisor. So, so you just, you know, you have different expertise than someone that would do it twice a week.

 

Randy:

I would say mine would probably be two. I would say one would be getting the CFP, Certified Financial Planner. That was right around Covid time, which was a challenge to say the least. As most of you know. I would—

 

Greg:

You were about to take the exam, then they canceled the exam.

 

Randy:

They canceled it. <Laugh> The day before.

 

Greg:

Stress.

 

Randy:

I actually was considering I was calling all the testing centers down the East coast. I was about to drive to Texas to take it. Ended up closing them, pushing it about six months back. So that was fun. I would say the second thing would be joining the Weimer-Wilding team and watching us continue to move and grow and break the process. That’s been invaluable to my career. And for those of you listening that don’t know, I was a solo practitioner when I started. And I would’ve made that decision to join the Weimer-Wilding team, 10 out of 10 times. It’s been awesome.

 

Greg:

And you know, it’s as far as expertise, we hired a consultant and this consultant said, Hey, how about this? And you know, we’re like, Oh, never thought of that. Now, you know, we, we have a lot of teams in the organization, the Weimer-Wilding team being one of ’em. And there is a real advantage of being a team and, and you know, everyone’s benefited, right? I mean, from that, from the team, everyone. And so we’re thankful you’re on it.

 

Gregory:

I don’t think last time we did this, I had been around very long, so, you know, I was working with clients, doing a little bit of everything with the CEPA background. I was still working on our finances. But with the growth of the organization, I think for me the biggest thing has just been, you know, actually taking on the COO responsibility. And now, whereas before it was a little, a little bit of, hey, run this project and make it happen. And I’ve done a lot of those, but now it’s, you’re responsible for making it happen. And I love that. I mean it’s, I’m working on the finances, whether it’s our internal accounting, our billing, I’m working on interviews, I’m working with our operations and our support associates and I still get to work with clients. So for me, the day to day is always changing and that, that’s been a huge change since three and a half years ago. And then there’s been additional designations. There’s been a kid added, so it it’s been a crazy three years.

 

Greg:

The difference, the difference three years makes. Yeah, right. But, but to get all that done, I know his wife fairly well. <Laugh> and Nick will say, she’ll say like, You’re on your computer, it’s at nine o’clock at night. And I don’t, I mean, I know you are. I am too. And what’s interesting is they’re probably not that different than you guys either, right? So, but that’s a lot, that’s a lot to do. Yeah, big change. I mean, I remember when you started, actually, I remember saying to you, you were, he, he was working at EY and he said, I think, I think I’m, I think I want, I think I want to come to Confluence. And I, I thought, okay, we weren’t that big back then, remember? And I, I thought, I don’t know what the hell you’d do <laugh>. Like—

 

Gregory:

I didn’t know either.

 

Greg:

But like now I don’t know what the hell we would do without you. So that’s great.

 

Katie:

Alright, I think, Greg, you touched on this at the beginning, but I’ve had two children in the last three years. So, one, personally, I mean that’s great family growing and second, I think we’re all parents in this room, but I think being a parent really changes your view and makes you better professionally too because your “why” becomes bigger. So that’s been a big change. And I will add, I had my first son Louie in May of 2020. So was working from home, had a child, maternity leave, back to work, but it was work from home. So that, just living life in the last three years has been—

 

Greg:

Yeah. Yeah. You said it made your “why” bigger and people, I mean I think everyone knows about the — we talk about that a lot, right? Whether it’s with clients, or your why, or the firm’s why, or maximize lives and legacies. You want to just touch on like what we mean when we say what you’re all about, all about, and how that is a little different and what that means to you.

 

Randy:

You’re all—

 

Greg:

I asked like 17 questions at once, but I think they’re all the same, right? It’s good. Yeah.

 

Randy:

The key with the, what’s you’re all about is it’s bigger than you might think initially. So sometimes people think of goal, they think, Oh, when do I want to retire? You know, when do I want to buy second home? Or whatever it is. And those are important, but the, what’s it all about is bigger. Like what drives you, what motivates you? When, when all is said and done in your life, what do you want people to say about you? What was important to you? And how do you orient your life, your finances, everything in pursuit of that why? Those are big questions. And I, I think we do a good job of helping each other and clients grapple with those.

 

Greg:

And spoiler alert, I’ve been thinking about this for a really long time. It’s a question that’s fun because you never answer it. You always have an answer, but you’ve never answered it. So, I mean, for me it always evolves and gets bigger and bigger and I was listening to some stuff over the weekend, some different podcasts and videos and I’m like, okay, wait, wait, wait. Am I clear enough about in 30 years what I want people to say or what impact I want to make? Am I clear enough? Can I really visualize it? And the more clear, the more visual you are, the more it’ll inspire you to get your uniform dirty if you have to to get it done.

 

Yeah, I think something, when we’re talking about motivation, I think what’s, clearly, we have motivated financial advisors. Our associates are also wildly motivated, right? I mean we have, we have associates. Whether if you, if you, you know, if you, if you think about some of the, the, the support, the, the support folks, they’re wildly motivated also, are there a couple things we do that maybe other business owners could duplicate to have motivation sort of status quo?

 

Chuck:

I think being open about the business’s goals, right? We’ve mentioned that already, but when the whole staff understands what you’re trying to do, it’s easier for them to feel like they’re part of something. And if they don’t know what the goals are, they’re just coming into work doing the normal job, they think, I have no idea what this is really for, but hey, I’m getting my paycheck. It’s all done. But we have, like you said, really motivated associates and a lot of them, they don’t have to, but they want to study and get licensed in the financial industry and take different tests and certifications and make posts on LinkedIn. They don’t have to do that. It’s not part of the job description, but they want to and I think including everyone is part of your growth plans is why if you have a closed-door policy, people will just see the closed door.

 

Katie:

Yeah. To touch on that I know we always say, Greg, you specifically, you always say we want everybody at Confluence to create the success, not just be a part of it. And once you say that, so many times I think people really take it to heart. And I think that is an example of why and how associates here are so motivated.

 

Randy:

And I think people feel like they have a seat at the table. We talk about that a lot. Whether it’s a new advisor coming on or one of the advantages of being at Confluence is you have a seat at the table and obviously that looks different, you know, depending on where you, where you are within the organization. But there’s been plenty of times where, you know, a support associate had an idea and said, Hey, I think we should do it this way. And everybody was like, Yeah, that sounds good. That’s, that’s a good, let’s do it that way. And that’s rewarding.

 

Greg:

Great idea to action can be, can be in a nanosecond here, right? We, we don’t make, we don’t have a whole layer of people that have to make decisions. If it’s great, we’ll do it and we’ll do it quick. And it doesn’t matter who it comes from.

 

Hopefully you have found this podcast to be of interest, but we really want to make sure we’re given you content and having podcasts that you’re interested in. So we would love to hear from you and just like we’d like to hear from our associates, we’d like to hear from our listeners and if there’s something that you would like us to talk about and you think would be beneficial, please let us know. Would be happy to include it.

 

Katie, Gregory, Chuck, Randy, thank you. We’re fired up that you’re a part of Confluence and we’re looking forward to the next 30, 40 and 50 years of continuing to build this incredible team in this incredible relationship. You know, we started out associates and we continue to build those relationships and end up being friends and I think that benefits clients, that will benefit clients for decades to come. Hopefully the listeners appreciated getting a little peek under the tent of Confluence, the importance of building a team and what talent means to building that team. And then a little bit about a growth mindset and how setting goals and planning those goals and communicating ’em and doing ’em as a team really, when you do those things together, you can really make a major difference. So thank you so much for listening.

 

Thank you for listening to the Imagine That Podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode and welcome you to reach out to Confluence Financial Partners with your questions and comments. If you’d like to hear more episodes, head over to confluencefp.com/podcasts or find us wherever you get your podcasts.

 

Greg:
Hello, and welcome to the Imagine That podcast. I’m your host, Greg Weimer, founder, partner, and wealth
manager at Confluence Financial Partners. Each month, we’ll explore new ways to help you maximize your
life and your legacy and meet some extraordinary people along the way. So if you’re looking to get more out
of your life today and legacy tomorrow, let’s get started.
Welcome to the second part of our two-part episode on Folds of Honor. If you listened to the first part, you
know all about Folds of Honor and the important work they do. We met Crystal Popella and she shared her
experience and why she founded the Western Pennsylvania chapter of the organization.
Today, Tiffany will help us understand exactly why an organization like Folds of Honor means so much.
Because Tiffany is a Gold Star wife. Her husband, Andy, gave the ultimate sacrifice so all of us could
continue to live in freedom. Andy was killed in action in Iraq. Tiffany was generous enough to share her
remarkable story with us and it is my honor to introduce her to our listeners.
Tiffany:
I’m one of thousands and of a group that I wish never was, but it’s my honor and privilege to be Andy’s wife.
And to be the one that was left behind to carry on his light. And I can say a hundred percent, my life has, the
trajectory of my entire life has been changed because of the vision that Dan Rooney had that day.
Greg:
Tiffany, if you could give your story just to help everybody understand, and this is one of 35,000. But if you
could just give your story and talk about, you know, how freedom really isn’t free and the price that your
family has paid.
Tiffany:
I met Andy Eckert on September 19th of 2002. And I’ll never forget the first time I looked him in the eye. The
piercing blue eyes, the same blue eyes that our children Marley and Myles have, which is the greatest gift.
But also some days just stings, you know? He knew from the minute we met that I was his forever. We met
up the next day and we spent the whole evening together. And when it came time to part, we were sitting on
his front step and he said, Tiffany, I need to tell you something. And you might never wanna talk to me again.
But if you could just hear me out, I have something I wanna share with you. And the long and short of it, he,
again, so intentionally looked me right in the eye, and he said, I know that when I met you last night, I met my
wife. I called my mom at four in the morning and I told her, I met Tiffany, I’m gonna marry her.
I’ve told all of my friends that I met my wife. And he said, and I know after January 1st of this upcoming year,
I’m gonna have to go away with the military. And I don’t know when, how, where or why, but I know I’m
gonna leave. And when I leave, you’ll be my wife. And it was really strange at that point in my life, I was so
young and I thought I had everything planned out. And this was 100 percent a contradiction to everything I
thought that was mapped for me and everything I wanted. But at the same time, it felt so natural. And it
wasn’t just because it was there. It was, it was Andy. It was as if, you know, that moment that we met the
night previous, it was like our souls had already met. We already knew each other. There was just this
perfect harmony, this, this ameshed feeling that I’ve never felt with anybody besides my children. It was
meant to be. And so I looked at him and I said, OK, I believe you. And he was right. Was a handful of months
down the road, February 24, 2003, he got activated to go and be part of the initial wave in the first
occupation of OIF which is Operation Iraqi Freedom.
I wasn’t with him when he got the call. But I got to our apartment and I walked through the door and he’d just
sobbing. His face was soaked in tears, his blue, blue eyes, the, the backdrop behind him was just these
blood-stained eyes. And he looked up at me and he ran over and he dropped to his knees and he put arms
around me and he said, I’m so sorry, our baby is not gonna know who I am. Because we had just found out I
was pregnant. And at the time we didn’t know if we were having a boy or a girl. And I grabbed him on either
side of his face. And I looked at him just like, he always looked at me with such intention and conviction. And
I said, no, I promise, no matter what happens, this baby’s gonna know exactly who you are. I promise.
And then just as nontraditional, as every other part of our relationship, he stood on both feet and looked me
right in the eye, standing, and said, don’t answer me now. I have to go away for a couple of days to do some
paperwork. But when I come back, I want you to marry me. But don’t, don’t answer me right now. And he
went away for a couple days. And when he came back, we went down to the Lucas County courthouse in
Toledo, Ohio. And we got married in a hallway by a stranger and I was wearing jeans. And you look at the
pictures, which we only have one. And Andy was so happy that if he had smiled any wider, his face would’ve
cracked. And I looked terrified, which I was. OK? I was 21. I was pregnant. I was confident that my husband
probably was gonna miss the birth of our first child and my entire pregnancy, which I was right.
And I, I knew that I loved this person more than I’d ever loved anything in my entire life. And then he was
going to war and also in the pictures, you’ll notice Andy had gone out that morning and he took horticulture
in high school. And so flowers and any type of greenery was very important to him. He went out and he got a
pale pink gerber daisy with some hot pink gerber daisies and had them put in a little bouquet. And I was like,
that’s so silly. Why would I take that to the courthouse? He said, you have to, there’s one flower for each of
us: me, you and the baby. And three means, I love you. And I can’t do much for you and this isn’t the
wedding you deserve, but I want you to hold these. And I did. And gerber daisies have become such a pivotal
point in the whole timeline of our story in that, two years, two months and 11 days later, when all of us were
gathered, as Andy was being lowered into the ground, graveside, every single person that was there,
hundreds and hundreds of hot pink and pale pink gerber daisies were placed on top of his casket.
And in all of these years, since we’ve lost Andy, for every special occasion, for every school dance that he’s
missed, for every major event, my children Marley and Myles both receive pale pink or hot pink gerber
daisies. And every now and again, anonymously hot pink gerber daisies will show up at the grave or on my
front porch. I don’t know who puts them there, but I know that ultimately, it’s Andy doing it. So after we got
married on February 28th, it was less than a week later he left for his first tour. On March 6th. And he was
on a 17-month deployment. And just like we both feared, he did not get to come and see Marley born in July.
She was born on July 17th, 2003. It was one of the most wonderful and heartbreaking days of my life. I
never said anything to anyone, but the whole time, all I wanted was to hear Andy’s voice.
And I was in labor for way longer than I should have been. It wasn’t until almost two days later after he got
his Red Cross message that I had gone into labor, that Andy was able to call me on a satellite phone from the
desert to tell me that he loved me. And that’s all I needed. The call was less than two minutes because
things were so tough then. The satellite phone dropped the call, but he was able to tell me, I’m sorry, I’m not
there. I love, you know that I’m with you, I’m in your heart. I’m so proud of you. You can do this. And then
shortly after that, it was like, I felt this release and I was able to give birth to Marley. And I’ll never forget the
first time I met her, she was placed and I was so tired, but I looked down at her and I said, oh, there you are.
I’m happy to meet you, Marley Freedom. I love you. And so does daddy. And then this beautiful moment was
occurring. And my dad goes, Freedom? Marley Freedom? What? That’s not her name. I said, yeah, it is. And
then I explained to my dad, Andy’s not here. And when Marley looks back at the pictures from when she was
born, I want her and her dad, most importantly, but I want everybody to know the reason he is not in the
pictures wasn’t because he didn’t want to be, but because he’s fighting for her freedom, my freedom, your
freedom. Her name is Marley Freedom. And I think she has the coolest name in the world. And her dad
thought so too. So it all worked out and it ended up being almost prophetic, truly that she had that name that
she has. Andy got to come home when she was 11 months old to meet her in April of 2004.
And when he came home, he was a purple heart veteran who had been deemed non-deployable. He never
had to go back to conflict again, ever. He still had shrapnel in his face, he still had shrapnel in his shoulder.
And he narrowly missed never coming home to us. He had been impacted by an IED explosion on March
15th, 2004. And the piece that was meant to take his life missed by a centimeter, missed his jugular. And e
was saved in that moment. He was able to home to us. It was just a handful of months later down the road. I
was at his Army Reserve unit because I was the family readiness leader for his company. And he came to the
room that I was in and I knew something was up. And he sat down and he put his hand on my knee and he
said, babe, they said, if I signed a waiver, I can go back. You know, my unit just got activated and these are
all the guys that I went to Basic and AIT with. And I don’t wanna leave you again. But I need to go. And you
don’t have to say yes, and I’m not begging you to say yes. But this is very important to me. And I believe this
is what I’m supposed to do. And at that time we had just found out I was pregnant with Myles, so here we
were again about repeat history. Here I was so young, 22 years old. And I l looked at him and I said, this is
not what I want, but I could never tell you no. If this is what you feel like you’re supposed to do, then yes, you
can sign the waiver. I will support you. But when you come home, I can’t do this again. And he said, I
promise, I’m gonna make it home. And we’ll be America’s dream team. We’ll just get through this one more
time. So I went with him, and I watched him as he signed the waiver. And coincidentally, every other soldier
that had been deployed in OIF1 that didn’t have to go again, not because they were injured but because of
the timeline. His brothers went and they signed waivers too.
And they went back together. They left for that deployment in OIF3 on Christmas Day, 2004. The only
Christmas we ever spent together was in a hotel room in Indiana. I still have the little, tiny tree in the tiny blue
ornaments, blue and silver bulbs that I bought at Walmart for Marley’s first and only Christmas ever with her
dad. And the only Christmas that we spent together as a family. And, you know, that’s what families like ours
do is they make the most of what moments they’re given. And they’re the grandest moments. We were in a
hotel room. We weren’t in a huge house with a huge tree and tons and tons of gifts, but we had each other
and that’s all that mattered. And those are the things that I try to tell people about and share with them. The
moments that matter most in life are the ones that you don’t even realize they’re your first or your last until
it’s over.
We sent Andy away on Christmas day and he called me, Myles was born in March and he called me about a
week before I was due. And he said, Hey, I’m in Kuwait. I think I’m gonna get to come home, but I don’t
know yet, but I think I’m gonna get to come home and see Myles born. And he said, I’ll call you as soon as I
can. And day after day after day passed, there was no call. And I was ready to have that boy. I had a cracked
pelvis and I called my doctor on Thursday of that week. And I said, listen, I can’t be pregnant one more day. I
am miserable. I don’t think I can walk anymore. I don’t know where my husband is. I did this once without
him. I can do it again. I think he’s on his way home.
I don’t know, but I can’t physically do this anymore. And he said, OK, we’ll induce you tomorrow. Tomorrow
came. It was Friday the 25th of March 2005. I got a call that morning and it was Andy. He said, Hey. I said
where the heck have you been, I haven’t from you for a week? What’re you doing? He’s like, I don’t think I’m
gonna get to come home, I’m really sorry. I said, well, I’m having this baby tonight. And he goes, just kidding.
I’m in Chicago. Can you at 10 AM from the Toledo airport? So he made it just in the nick of time and as fate
would have it. I didn’t need to be induced. I went into labor on my own that night. And Andy got to be home
for 14 days. It was the greatest 14 days that I’ve ever had ever. The only time that my family was together
complete as a family of four. And oftentimes I’ll recount the fact that I have one picture of all four of us
together.
And that is in the moment at the hospital when Marley was brought up to meet Myles. And that’s important.
And I, I share that often because oftentimes especially moms, we like to hide behind the camera. We like to
deny the opportunity to be in pictures because we think we don’t look good enough. Our hair is a mess, our
body isn’t right. And we forgo the opportunity to be in these lasting memories. And so to anyone listening, I
would say, any chance you have to in a picture with your loved ones, your children, your spouse, anybody
important to you — you need to seize that moment and that opportunity. Because I literally have one picture
of my family together, only one. And none of us are looking at the camera. It’s a beautiful moment, we’re all
looking at each other. And I’m thankful for that. But I wish I had more because at the end of the day, when
someone’s gone, they’re gone. Death is permanent. And one day all you’re going have is photos and
memories and what you’ve stored in your mind.
So like I said, Andy was home for 14 days, greatest 14 days ever. Every morning I woke up and Andy and
Marley were sitting at the kitchen table, eating either Froot Loops or Lucky Charms talking to each other. And
she had crooked pigtails on her head. And the neatest part I found out about this after Andy had been killed
was that the weeks leading up to coming home to see Myles born, he had deployed his fellow female soldiers
to teach him how to braid just in case Marley’s hair was long enough to do so, which it wasn’t, but he figured
out how to get her piggies in and they were crooked and they were perfect. And that is one of my favorite
memories of my husband. He was so intentional and thoughtful and he planned everything out and he tried to
do the best he could.
And he was present, although he was an 11-hour time difference. And so many thousands of miles away,
Andy was a part of our every day because I promised him in that moment on February 24th, 2003, when he
was deployed the first time that our kids would know who he was. And he promised from the moment I met
him, that he would be there a hundred percent. And he was. Last time I ever saw Andy alive was the
beginning of April 2005 at the Toledo Lucas County Airport. Andy looked at me when we were standing there
waiting to give the TSA agent his ID. Tears streaming down his face similar to the day he’d been deployed.
And there’s a lot of things I don’t tell anyone. And I’ll only ever share with my kids, but oftentimes I do
recount certain moments from this time. And that is that he looked at me and he said, this is the last time I’m
ever gonna see you. I know I’m not coming home.
I know I’ll never be here again. And I’m very sorry, but I know that you can do this. And know that I’ll be with
you every day and that I love you and I’m proud of you. And I support every decision you make. It’ll be the
right one. Then he looked the lady who was standing at the podium and he said, this is my wife, Tiffany.
She’s the smartest, most beautiful woman in the world and the mother of my children. And this is Marley and
this is Myles. These are my kids. And I love them so much. And you could see she kinda teared up a little
and handed him his ID back and said yes sir. And then he walked in the line and kept every five feet or so, he
would stop and turn around, and wave to us. He’d walk and he’d stop and he’d turn around and wave to us
until we couldn’t see him anymore. And that’s the last time I ever saw Andy alive.
It was on Mother’s Day 2005, May 8th. I woke up and it wasn’t the same wakeup that I’d had every day since
Myles was born and Andy was back in country. Every day without fail between three and four in the morning,
Andy would call me and be like, babe, what are you doing? And I’d be like, well I was sleeping. That call did
not come that day. Never came. I went about my day for the first few hours and all of my friends called. The
other girls that had their soldiers deployed with Andy. And I remember telling my friend, Aubrey, I said,
something’s wrong. I know something’s wrong with Andy, something’s happened. And she said, no, no, no.
They’re probably on lockdown. As soon as they can get to the phones, you know Andy will be the first in line,
he’s gonna call, it’s Mother’s Day. He’ll be the first in line. And I said, no, Aubrey, I know something’s wrong.
And it was about an hour and a half later, I got to Andy’s foster parents’ house, they had raised him until the
end of high school so that he could graduate. And I just said to his foster mom, something’s wrong. I think
something’s happened to Andy. And then my phone started ringing and the phone calls were toggling back
and forth between Southfield, Michigan, where there was a soldier who was attached to Andy’s unit and
Dover, which if you’re getting calls from Dover, that’s not a good sign. That’s where casualty operations
come through. And the one guy said, I just need to know where you are Miss Eckert. I just need to know
where you are. They didn’t have the correct address for us.
And then when I got on the line with Dover the second time I said to the woman, ma’am, is my husband
dead? And she paused for what felt like a really long time, but it probably wasn’t and she said, I, I need to
know where you are, Mrs. Eckert. And then it was about an hour later, a military vehicle pulled up in the
driveway and I was sitting on a rock at the end of the sidewalk. And when only one got out, I thought, okay,
he’s just injured. So we’re gonna go to Germany and bring him home and we’re gonna figure it out. It’s
gonna be fine. And you know, I don’t remember that gentleman’s name. I couldn’t pick him out of a crowd,
but if I ever saw his eyes again, I would know, I would know exactly who he was, cuz that’s what I was
staring at the whole time he was speaking. And I remember every word he said. And when I walked away
from him and oftentimes people in our situation, they imagine what would happen if I was notified.
And I’m sure just regular people may be watching movies where there’s a notification and they think, oh,
what would I do if I found out someone had been killed? Well I walked up the sidewalk and at that time I’d
had time to call my friends in the area, my military friends and they were sitting on the porch and everyone
said what happened? And all I could say was Andy passed away today. And I walked up the steps and I
walked away from everyone. And I sat on a bench all by myself on the opposite side of the porch. I remember
putting my heads in my, my head in my hands. And I said, I can’t do this. I can’t, I can’t do this. And I started
to cry and my friend came over, her mom and she smacked leg really hard, which was good because she
woke me up out of whatever I was at the moment, and she said, oh Tiffany, yes you will and yes you can.
And she grabbed me by my chin and she turned my face very aggressively towards the other end of the
porch. And all I could see were Marley and Myles. And she said, yes, you can. And yes, you will because
those babies need you. You have to get up every day and you have to do this.
You have to do this, Tiffany. And I stood up. And I have never stopped standing. There was never a single day
that I didn’t get outta bed because Marley and Myles needed me. There was never a single day that I felt
sorry for myself to the point where I couldn’t function because Marley and Myles needed me. And I have
stood every second of every single day that has passed in the last 17 years since losing Andy. And I would
listen that if you have the opportunity to be a Miss Terry for someone, do it. Just like Dan had the opportunity
to see out that window and see what he saw that has changed everything and started Folds of Honor. You
have opportunities to be Miss Terry for someone, you just have to be awake. You just have to be aware. You
have to be there for people. Life isn’t about you. You have one chance, one opportunity. Stop being selfish
and be there in moments where you could be the only person. Ms. Terry changed the trajectory of my life.
100%. I wouldn’t have made it this far. If she hadn’t been there with me in that moment. And I could recount
so many memories and so many things that to some, you would say, you would classify them as
heartbreaking. But for me, I would say, don’t let your heart be broken over the trauma I’ve experienced.
However, when you hear stories like mine, let your heart bend, let your heart bend so that you can make a
positive change and gain new perspective for your life and the opportunity that you’ve been given to live. You
know, I was 23 when Andy died, he was 24. Marley was 20 months old and Myles was one month old. This
Mother’s Day, May 8th will be 17 years since Andy died. And it just so happens, I believe it’s the third time
that May 8th has fallen on Mother’s Day again, since he died.
And I would say in all these years, I’m 40 now. I’m starting to get forehead lines. I’m starting to get crow’s
feet. I’m starting to get gray hair. I’m a little overweight. But you know what? I am so thankful for that
opportunity. And the perspective that life is short and my husband will always, always be 24. He did not get
to age. We were supposed to grow old together. I wanted to watch get laugh lines and I wanted to watch his
hair shift from black to silver. But that didn’t happen. And so I would say to people listening, embrace who
you are in this moment because you get to be in this moment because of fate. And also because of people
like Andy, who are willing to die for you, does that make sense?
Greg:
You are amazing. We just need to breathe. I think, candidly, I wanna say thank you. It feels shallow. It’s not
enough. You just need to know we’re grateful. I don’t think that’s enough. I just would say that what we all
can do is just never forget that freedom isn’t free. Never forget Tiffany’s story. Never forget Andy’s story.
Let’s realize the sacrifice that a very small percentage of people make so we can live our lives. There was so
much in there. I wrote like moments. I think you said moments don’t ha— like you don’t realize they’re
special moments until you look back on ’em. You’re not always aware pictures, pictures. I was at a surprise
party on Saturday and they’re all the pictures I’m like, wow.
The pictures of this gentleman, who’s a really good friend of mine and his family, I thought were awesome.
Ms. Terry, there should be a, there should be a national Ms. Terry award, right? I mean that Ms. Terry, I
mean, just be Ms. Terry. That also like listening to you when she turns your chin to your children, it shows
you whether you’re talking about Andy, Tiffany or Crystal, how powerful life can be when you actually focus
on other people. One of my questions was it was gonna be like, how do you stay strong every day? How do
you stand up every day? How do you stay so positive and committed to Andy’s legacy? But you answered it.
Tiffany:
Well there’s more too. I would say, well, for me personally another very, very valid point is I never got to say
goodbye to my husband and every single thing I do every single day, especially this work, this is how I say, I
love you to Andy. This is my tangible way. This work and the way I live my life and the way I treat people now,
I’m not perfect. Some, some days I have bad days or I get frustrated, but for the most part, I am genuinely
very giving, very forgiving, very intentional, very present. And it all goes back to the fact that I will never have
closure. I’m not getting to say goodbye. And I will never hear back at this point in my life, or for the last 17
years. I love you too, Tiff. I have to seek it out if that makes sense.
So especially in regards to any work I do with the military and awareness around the Gold Star community
and Folds of Honor. And anytime I tell our story, this is how I tell Andy, I love you. And this is how I show
Marley and Myles that Andy and I loved each other. And we loved them. Because, you know, I’ve said for
years, I lost a lot and this was very traumatic. You know, I was when your frontal lobe isn’t even fully formed
till you’re 25 years old. So a lot of things happened before I was medically fully sound, if that makes sense.
This is truly how I make sense of something that doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t make sense. Andy was
wonderful. He would’ve been the best dad ever. He would’ve been the best coach ever. He would’ve been all
the things. You know, Marley has never heard her dad say, you’re beautiful. I love you. Now I tell her that
every day, more than she’d like to hear. Enough for three people let alone just him and I. Myles has never
thrown a ball with him. You know, I, I try to be, fill the void, but I can’t. I promised Andy, our kids would know
him. It always goes back to that promise. And I promised Andy that I would love him forever, which I will.
Greg:
So Tiffany, incredible. Could you make the connection between your incredible story and what education
meant to Andy to you and how Folds of Honor have helped you fulfill that mission?
Tiffany:
Yes. So the night before Andy was killed, within hours of his death, he called home. And again, he said many
things. I don’t share everything. He did reiterate again that he knew he wasn’t coming home. And the last
conversation we ever had was in regard to, Andy thought I was the smartest most wonderful person he ever
knew. And he knew that I needed to go to school. And he, he said, I know it might take a while because the
kids are young, but no matter what you need to get an education, it’s very important. And our kids need to
have an education, that’s very important to me. I need you to promise that that’s gonna happen. And I
agreed, and it’s taken a long time for me personally, to go back to school, but in the fall of 2020, in the crux
of the pandemic, I decided to quit my job and go back to school. And in doing so, not only am I fulfilling that
final and last promise, which I was putting it off because it’s the last promise I ever made to him.
And there’s a big sense of finality in that. The last thing you’re hanging onto, you know, that’s over. But I’m,
I’m glad I’m in school. I’m, I’m full-time in college and I’m doing very well, but number one, I’m, I’m filling
that promise. But also, I found healing. My major is human development and family studies with a minor in
gerontology. So my major is the study of human development across the lifespan, which has provided me
with an intense amount of healing in regard to my childhood, as well as the trauma of losing my husband at
such a young age. And it has helped me to be a better person. When I say I have found healing, 100% I have
truly found healing and that wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t go back to school. And Folds of Honor has
provided that opportunity for me. Additionally, my children have been recipients for several years.
Marley is now 18 years old. She graduates in just a couple of weeks and she has been able to go to a private
high school for the last four years where she has excelled. Her cumulative GPA has been above a 4.0 for the
last four years. She applied to multiple colleges and was accepted into every single one. Some big colleges
too. She’s in the National Honor Society. She’s the captain of her rowing team. You know, she’s done a lot of
amazing things, which she wouldn’t have done if she wasn’t at the school she was at. She just told me this
weekend, she declared yesterday, which was the college decision day. She’s decided to stay close to home. I
had a different idea of where I wanted her to go, but ultimately is her decision and she and I will be at the
same college in the fall.
And now I’m hoping we take Spanish together because I’m gonna need a study buddy. So that’s really
special. And then my son, Myles, he is 17. He is a junior in high school and you know, school comes easy for
some and for others, it doesn’t. And oftentimes people forget that everyone has different skill. Now, when I
look at my son, I have always seen this amazing young man who has so much to offer the world, but school’s
been a struggle for him. Since kindergarten. And I remember when he was very young sitting in a meeting
and I was told, you know, he’s got a lot of challenges you should probably come up with a less traditional
plan for him. College might not be in his future. And I said, oh, I beg to differ. I’m pretty sure if he wants to go
to college, he’s gonna go to college.
And here we are, for the last several years, Myles has utilized his Folds of Honor scholarship for private
tutoring, which has put him in a place that I was told. He’d never be and ending his junior year, for him,
Myles has an excellent GPA and it’s looking like he won’t have to go full day for senior year next year. And he
will also be going to the same college that Marley and myself are at. So that will be a fun time.
Greg:
Wow. <Laugh>
Tiffany:
And it of first and foremost, it’s because I love my kids that they have succeeded so well, but also because
Folds of Honor has come in, locked arms and shown us the support and love and additional resources that
we need in order to be successful in regard to our education. And I would say, and I say this every time I
speak, you’re not giving a donation to Folds of Honor.
That’s not how I view it. I view it as an investment. And oftentimes people wanna see the return on their
investments. And to that, I would say, you may not see it because our group, unfortunately, is bigger than it
should be. However, every night when you crawl into bed or every day as you walk around in life and you’re
covered by that blanket of freedom, that is where you find your return. That is where you find the return on
your investment. And it’s immeasurable. You cannot go wrong by providing anybody an education, especially
children like Marley and Myles or spouses like myself. You cannot go wrong by giving someone the gift of
learning and a debt free education.
Greg:
Tiffany, we’re in the investment business, but you’re one of the best investments I think anybody could ever
wanna make. <Laugh>
Greg:
Tiffany or Crystal who would like to step up and tell this story that I think is one of the best stories I’ve ever
heard about being awake about major Dan Rooney. Who’s got it?
Tiffany:
The long, long and short of it is Dan was on a flight and the pilot came over the speaker and asked that they
remained seated because they had hero traveling on board. And he was looking out the side window. He, he
describes it as I believe, a starry night, looking out the window. And he watched as Brock Buckland’s body
was rolled out from underneath the cargo area of the plane. And he watched this entire scene unfold where
Brock’s small son was standing there and they received his remains. And when he turned back around, after
watching everything play out, most of the people on the plane had gotten up and gotten off the plane and
disregarded the message that had come over. And in that moment, he had this pivotal, I would describe it
from hearing the story so many times firsthand and via the video.
He had this awakening. This call to action, where he knew he had to do something as an American, as a
veteran, just as a general human being. He had to do something to change what had happened. And I will
say, hundred percent, in all of the years that have passed since he experienced that epiphany, he has made
a huge sweeper wave of change for my, the community that myself and my children are a part of. And I
believe the ripple effect is immeasurable. What he’s been able to accomplish because he was awake and he
was cognizant. And he was aware in that moment where other people were selfish and didn’t care and were
in a rush. And couldn’t take five minutes to show reverence to one of our fallen.
Greg:
The reality is I ask everybody to listen to it again and take notes. And I think there’s so many lessons in there
on great investments we can make, and gratitude we can have, and pictures we can take. I remember on my
wedding night, there was a manager of the brokerage firm I was at that day. And he said he gave me a $50
bill, which was like back then a trillion. And he gave me a $50 bill. And he said, I’m gonna give you this $50
bill, as long as you do one thing. And he said, make sure you kiss Lori before you go to bed every night and
tell her you love her. And, you know, he was that Mrs. Terry for me that day. And Tiffany, thank you for
reminding me of that today. You, you really are a remarkable person.
Tiffany:
Thank you for receiving it, man. I’m just an ordinary person. Who’s been through some extraordinary things
and I’m trying to make the most of my life, which is what we should all be doing. We just have to do better
and be better. So thank you for being open.
Greg:
I think you just did a pretty good job of explaining a hero but thank you for that explanation. I think it’s pretty
well done.
Tiffany:
Well, too, I would say, I know you’re in the financial business. And so a lot of people listening are in realm,
but not everybody has the same skillsets or resources. So I would to anyone listening in the off chance that
doesn’t have the financial resources to support. Oftentimes people ask, well, what can I do? I’m just, what,
what can I do if I don’t have money to give? And I would say, for me personally, I would never ask you for
anything, regardless of who you are or what resources you have. However, at the end of the day, if you really
wanna know what I personally, as a surviving spouse of a soldier who was killed in action, and the mother of
two kids that were left behind, what I think is: you need to just be a better person, be awake like Dan was. Be
there like Miss Terry was. Be present every day like I am. Be a better person. If you can’t give money, you
know, there’s other ways. Make your life count for something.
Greg:
Tiffany, would you feel comfortable telling Myles’ story?
Tiffany:
Sure. It was the beginning of February 2014. We had a lot of severe weather in our area and the kids had
had multiple snow days in a row. And we had a day off from school that day, but the weather was nice
enough so that we could go out. And I asked the kids, where do you wanna go? Let’s go to lunch. And they
said, let’s go to Cracker Barrel. And so we were walking in the cracker barrel and unbeknownst to me until
we were in the restaurant, Myles had found $20 in the, in the parking lot. And as we were walking in, he was
like super excited and him and Marley were going back and forth and da-da-da-da-da. And we sat down and
Myles was like, mom, I found $20 in the parking lot, our waitress is getting a really big tip today. I was like,
okay buddy. He was like, don’t worry, I got the tip. I was like, alright buddy. So then, I don’t know, 15
minutes or so later, Frank Dailey walked in with his wife and his grandson.
And he was in uniform because he was airman at the 180th in our area, this Air Force base. And he, he
came in and he sat down and Myles’ eyes were just really big. And he was following him until he sat in his
seat. And then he looked at me and he looked back at Frank and he looked at me. And he said, mom, you’re
gonna have to take care of the waitress, cause I’m gonna buy that guy’s lunch instead. And I said, OK, that’s
fine. And so Myles at, I always have post-it notes and a pen on me because we, typically it would be Marley
and I, but we would leave random notes of kindness or pay it forwards and whatever, just scatter them
throughout our day, whenever we were, anywhere. Always based on being anonymous. And Myles wrote this
note and it said, Dear soldier, my dad was a soldier, I found this $20 in the parking lot when we got here. We
like to pay it forward in our family.
Today is your lucky day. And he signed it Myles Eckert, a Gold Star kid. And he wrapped the 20 up in that
green post-it, and then it took him a while. Cuz Myles is very, very nervous. He’s very shy. And I walked over
with him eventually, cuz he kept trying to go and give it to Frank and he would run over there and run back.
And so finally I walked over there with him and I said, Hey, my son wants to give you this. And he said, Hey,
thanks. And that was that. And we went about the rest of our day. Well I think what had happened was
Frank’s daughter took a picture of the note and posted it online locally. And then all of a sudden, people, you
know, the power of social media and Facebook people were like, oh I know that kid.
And they were tagging me. They were like, Hey, that’s Tiffany, I know them, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it
became just like locally, this organically wild story and local news picked it up. And then before, you know it,
all these outlets were calling and Steve Hartman called and he asked if he could come out and do a story,
which he did. And then it went super mega viral. And we were getting calls from every national outlet. I
mean, I said no to Steve Harvey, Meredith Viera, Good Morning America, all these things. And then Ellen
called and it was partially like Ellen. And then also we were getting so much traction. People were sending
mail to the kids’ school. They were, our, our mail was just insane. People were finding my phone number and
calling. People from all over the world. And I said, we gotta put the brakes on this because I don’t know what
to do. And so I said yes to Ellen because I felt that it was the most mainstream platform to get the word out to
say hey, this is really great and nice.
But if you guys could stop sending stuff to my house or, you know, we were trying to redirect the pay it
forwards to something else. And I’ll tell you, behind the scenes, I’m a single mom and life is, it’s hard to be a
single mom and financially I could have taken advantage of the situation, but I never felt I was supposed to.
Never. And so we paid everything forward. We gave it all away and we directed it to a different charity at the
time that was before we knew what Folds was. And in one initiative in a couple of months we raised 1.8
million. And in the time since, you know, 2014 we’ve raised, I mean, I don’t even know at this point, because
it was never about keeping track, right. And we’ve continued to do things, you know, publicly. And then
obviously still tried to maintain, do anonymous things here and there as we can.
And the beauty of Myles’ story is that it went, I believe so far and wide is because it was genuine. And I feel
that my job all this time has been to be the protector of Myles’ story. And so I said no to things that other
people would’ve said yes to, for personal gain. And I believe that’s truly why it has gone so far and wide. And
literally across the globe and day that the publicist had sent Dan through, Frank called and he said, Tiffany, I
a hundred percent support that you are telling these people, all these people, no, I’m okay with it. He goes,
but if there is one thing that you could please say yes to, there’s this guy and he’s a fighter pilot. You know,
Frank was in the Air Force. He goes, he wants us to come to this outing in Owasso at the Patriot, which is,
you know, the golf, the club.
And he goes, I, you know, in order for me to go, you guys have to go. So could you consider saying yes to
this? I said, well, I’ll give the guy a call. How about that? And I knew, I called Dan Rooney on his cell phone.
And I knew the minute that we were on the phone, that he was genuine, authentic. It was real that he wasn’t
take advantage of my son, or our family, or exploit our story, or exploit Andy or Myles.
And, you know I can’t say enough, enough good things about Dan in particular, but also anybody that I’ve
encountered who is a part of the mission. They, I have not met one person who does not genuinely stand
behind our family and the fact that they’re educating these kids. And I’ll tell you, because of Myles’ story and
the exposure we’ve had and things that I’ve been privy to, it is exceptionally rare. That’s why I’ll always stand
with Folds.

Greg:
To sit here and listen. And just so thankful for your commitment, your sacrifice, the lessons you’ve taught all
the listeners today. You know, when Dan says, who I do not know, Dan Rooney, but just watching him and
learning about him, truly is a hero.
And please everybody, in listening to these stories, let’s remember 1% of our country fights for the freedom
of the other 99%. And let’s make sure we understand that freedom isn’t free. And if we’re ever in a situation
like that airplane, let’s stay seated and let’s give our heroes the respect they’ve earned and deserved. God
bless both of you and God bless our military.
Thank you for listening to the Imagine That podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode and welcome you to
reach out to Confluence Financial Partners with your questions and comments. If you’d like to hear more
episodes, head over to confluencefp.com/podcasts, or find us wherever you get your podcast.

Greg:

Hello, and welcome to the, Imagine That podcast. I’m your host, Greg Weimer, founder, partner, and wealth manager at Confluence Financial Partners. Each month, we’ll explore new ways to help you maximize your life and your legacy and meet some extraordinary people along the way. So if you’re looking to get more out of your life today and legacy tomorrow, let’s get started.

 

For the first time, we’re releasing a podcast episode in two parts about an organization called Folds of Honor.

Folds of Honor is a nonprofit that provides scholarships to the families of fallen and disabled service members. We spoke with some incredible people involved with Folds of Honor, and their stories were so powerful, we wanted to share them with you in their entirety.

 

Today, I’m here with Crystal Popella and Tiffany Eckert. Let me explain to you who they are and why you should listen. Crystal put her passion into action and she started the Folds of Honor chapter locally. She also has a success successful business career, but she, she started Folds of Honor locally. And we’re gonna tell you all about that. I think there’s lessons to be learned here, folks. And then two, Tiffany Eckert, Tiffany. I was impressed with her. I was blown away by her. I met her six months ago. Tiffany’s husband was, is a hero and gave the ultimate sacrifice. So all of us could continue to live in freedom.

 

There’s three lessons I’m positive we’ll learn. The first one we’re gonna learn is if you’re awake on a daily basis and you’re just awake to go, what’s going on around you. There are lessons that come to us that can literally change your life. And we’re gonna tell you about a guy by the name of Major Dan Rooney, who is awake on a flight. And he literally changed over a hundred thousand people’s lives by just being awake.

 

So the question I have for all of us, are we awake and how can we be better and be more intentional? Second, we’re going to learn when you have a passion, how you turn it into action. And, and really so many people have this whole “gonna” call him. I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna do that. You’re gonna hear loud and clear from Crystal, how you do it. And she turned passion into action. And then also, and then also freedom isn’t free. Let’s start with the first one. And that is Major Dan Rooney.

 

Tiffany:

The long, long and short of it is Dan was on a flight and the pilot came over the speaker and asked that they remained seated because they had hero traveling on board. And he was looking out the side window. He, he describes it as I believe, a starry night, looking out the window. And he watched as Brock Buckland’s body was rolled out from underneath the cargo area of the plane. And he watched this entire scene unfold where Brock’s small son was standing there and they received his remains. And when he turned back around, after watching everything play out, most of the people on the plane had gotten up and gotten off the plane and disregarded the message that had come over. And in that moment, he had this pivotal, I would describe it from hearing the story so many times firsthand and via the video.

 

He had this awakening. This call to action, where he knew he had to do something as an American, as a veteran, just as a general human being. He had to do something to change what had happened. And I will say, hundred percent, in all of the years that have passed since he experienced that epiphany, he has made a huge sweeper wave of change for my, the community that myself and my children are a part of. And I believe the ripple effect is immeasurable. What he’s been able to accomplish because he was awake and he was cognizant. And he was aware in that moment where other people were selfish and didn’t care and were in a rush. And couldn’t take five minutes to show reverence to one of our fallen.

 

Greg:

So Major Dan Rooney, by the way, if I understand correctly, he spent two tours of, of duty in, in Iraq, right? And one of the, one of the things that when he first told, when I first heard him tell the story, he was walking on someone in the military in first class. And when they, and as this right, Tiffany, when they heard him say like, there’s a hero on board, he, he immediately went to, what did that guy do? I mean, he is a hero because he is in the military, but is there more to the story? And the fallen soldier was his twin brother. And so, you know, you put yourself in that story and you say as Major Dan Rooney turned around and 50% of the people on the airplane left, which one would you have been? Like, like, are, are we so busy in our daily basis that we’re like really running to a flight or are we awake to the fact that someone just gave their life?

 

So we had the privilege to be on that flight. And if any of us were really honest, some days when we’re, you know, I mean, and it’s just, but anyhow, he, Major Dan Rooney went on to create, is that the origination of Folds of Honor. Right? So he created Folds of Honor and Folds of Honor they give scholarships to the family of injured and fallen heroes. And, and I tell me if these numbers are right, they may be a little outdated. I, I, I did some Googling. And it’s because of that one person being awake that day folds of honor have given, has given 35,000 scholarships, is that right? Like, that’s amazing. So then I thought like, I can’t really visualize 35,000 scholarships. So I thought, okay, so at Google, how many people fit on a school bus? And you know, that’s 486 school buses.

 

So here’s one guy on one flight and 486 school buses of students later, adults and children, was what this person was way able to create. So really remarkable, just being awake that day made a difference. Changing one family one day at a time. So that takes me to Crystal. Crystal, one of the things that I think is really exciting and, and, you know, I ran into a gentleman that helped me think through this years ago is when you really figure out what your all about is all about. And, and, and, and, and, and that’s true in finance also. When we’re doing financial plans for people, what we really try to figure out is: what’s your all about, all about. And then we help you maximize your life and legacy with a financial plan. You figured out what your all about is all about, and that is Folds of Honor. And what I think is really amazing is you didn’t put it in that “gonna” column you, you immediately created it, created into the, in Western Pennsylvania, that we’re gonna do this. And do you wanna just take us through how you did that and how you turned it into this charity locally that’s making, that’s changing people’s lives?

 

Crystal:

Absolutely. So my husband was at a work conference back in 2013 and had the great opportunity to listen to, now, Lieutenant Colonel Dan Rooney, and he was blown away. So not only back in 2007, when Lieutenant Colonel Dan founded Folds of Honor and changed lives one at a time, he is now touching people in the food service industry, talking to them and encouraging them to find their purpose, find their passion, talks to them about Folds of Honor. My husband was like, I gotta meet this guy. He’s calling me. So he took action, you know, and he said, what can we do?

 

Greg:

So he picked up the phone.

 

Crystal:

No, he walked up to him after the conference and, and shook his hand and said, Hey, I’m Mike Popella. Tell me, tell me what I can do here in Western Pennsylvania.

 

Greg:

So how many people are in that audience and don’t go up, do you know what I mean? Like everybody, again, they’re gonna, there’s like, I really should meet this person. I really should see how I could help. And, and instead you don’t, right. They just, they just, they leave. And they’re like, oh, you know, I, cause that’s what I thought you wanted. He called him the next week or something. No, he went up and he shook his hand.

 

Crystal:

Yep. And from there that built a friendship and a relationship to this day continues to grow. So at that point, you know, we supported the mission, Folds of Honor, financially. But then Mike had the opportunity to listen to him again. And the calling was much deeper and the call to action, like you need to do more. And so Mike came home from that conference back in 2019 and said, there’s no Folds of Honor chapter here in Western Pennsylvania, and we’re gonna start one.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Crystal:

So he went down the road of investigating, what does he need to do to get the LLC set up, you know, all the tax documents and, and then forming that team.

 

Greg:

Okay. So when did it actually start in, in Western PA?

 

Crystal:

Western Pennsylvania chapter launched in October of 2019, our very first fundraiser event was at Top Golf, March 14th, 2020, the day before COVID shut everything down.

 

Greg:

Oh man. Yep.

 

Crystal:

You know, so we had all these people that were like, oh, COVID’s coming, we don’t wanna come. But it was still a great, great success. But back to the formation of Western Pennsylvania Folds of Honor, we, we knew we needed a team, you know? So how do you build a team to be successful? And when Tiffany said, it’s the ripple—

 

Greg:

In the middle of COVID.

 

Crystal:

In the middle of COVID, we, we needed that ripple effect. So we, we knew that we needed to build a diverse team. So we have marketing people on our board. We have real estate people. We have folks in the financial industry to really kind of pull out key pods of people that could help drive the success of the organization here in west Western Pennsylvania. So I feel like that was the critical first step. After the call to action of meeting Dan Rooney and saying, I’m gonna do more.

 

Greg:

And, and by the way, you, you had never started an organization like this before.

 

Crystal:

Never.

 

Greg:

So you made the commitment and then figured out how to do it. I think so many people think they know how to do it before they make the commitment. And it’s, it’s not how success works.

 

Crystal:

Or the fear of not knowing how to do it. So that holds them back.

 

Greg:

For sure. I mean, there’s a myth of success. There’s the myth of accom, myth of accomplishment that, you know exactly what you’re doing before you do it. Untrue. You had probably more variables, you’re in the middle of COVID, and you build a team. And, and how, and tell us about the success.

 

Crystal:

So our very first event you know, people were canceling and, and I’m panicking because Mike is the sales guy.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Crystal:

He sells the dream and he says, we’re having an event and I’m the operational person. Yeah. Like I gotta figure out how to make it happen. I’m a nurse by trade, but I do consulting work and teach people how to identify, you know, the bumps in the road. And how do you improve that process to, you know, drive quality over time?

 

Greg:

Mm-Hmm <affirmative>.

 

Crystal:

So again, we had challenges with people canceling, but we still walked outta that very first event in March of 2020. And we raised enough for two and a half scholarships.

 

Greg:

And how much is the scholarship?

 

Crystal:

$5,000,

 

Greg:

$5,000.

 

Crystal:

So we raised in 12,500 or below 10,000.

 

Greg:

That was great. Oh, really? Yeah. That’s awesome. And what’s, what’s really cool about a, a scholarship. I think when you think about education, so many things, and there’s a lot of great charities, but it’s temporary. You give someone a coat; you know what I mean? You and I, I, I, I mean, we’ve all done those and, and they’re necessary cuz people need coats, but you do go home and you think I didn’t really solve that. And I’m not saying a, a scholarship solves it for everyone, but if you give someone an education that no one can take that away from them and that’ll go on to affect them and I, and, and impact them forever. So that’s what I’d love about Folds of Honor. Not only is it helping our heroes, but also in their families, but also, it’s lasting.

 

Crystal:

And it drives the success of our great nation. You know, like, let’s talk about putting an education in front of these spouses and children who have made that ultimate sacrifice and, and losing a loved one. I mean, you look at Tiffany’s family you know, they’re making a difference. And when you look at that long term effect of what that scholarship is gonna do for not only Tiffany, but each of her children and the legacy that they carry out, you know, it, it, it just continues to grow legs.

 

Greg:

So, yeah. So when you, if you think about those 35,000 people, you think about a family of four, you think about Penn state stadium, you think about that on a Saturday, 110,000 people, all of the people that this one person on an airplane being awake, changing the world, you implement it locally. They would, all the people that were affected would not fit in that stadium. And that’s one generation. You multiply that out.

 

And then when you think about Crystal, she heard this and every, and you know, you hear this and it’s moving, it’s moving. But Crystal and Mike took these moving moments and said, how can we make more investments? And how can we raise money? And I do think it’s, you know, from what two years ago now, is that right? Yeah. So how many scholarships through your work and Mike’s work, have you been able to provide in this area? Over a hundred. Over a hundred. So over a hundred. Yeah. And, and, and there’s a lot of ways to get involved and there’s a lot of ways to make investments and really understand that freedom’s not free and get behind this cause. And I’ll tell you, and, and is your major fundraiser across the nation golf outings, is that like where you raise a lot,

 

Crystal:

That’s the primary focus primary, but we really try to engage other interests, you know, because not everybody’s involved in golf. So how do you engage folks who wanna do a fundraiser around horseback riding,

 

Greg:

Right.

 

Crystal:

Or around cooking classes or so we have a lot of different people that say, here’s my passion and purpose. I also love Folds of Honor. How can I tie the two of them together? We wanna raise money for Folds of Honor, but here’s how we wanna do it. So we certainly encourage those people who raise their hand and say we wanna help.

 

Greg:

So if someone has an idea, they should put forward the idea, give you a call and go.

 

Crystal:

Absolutely. We are always looking for volunteers who wanna make that difference and invest in a family like the Eckerts.

 

Greg:

First time I heard of Folds of Honor, I dunno if it was an email call, text from Chris McKnight up at Laurel Valley: Putting together this golf outing, can you grab a foursome? The pro at St. Clair Country Club is also a friend, Jay Mull, he’s a veteran. He would be our pro. There would be four of us. Come on up. I hear it’s a nice event. Okay. We go. First of all, if you haven’t been to a Folds of Honor event, I know everybody’s been to a lot of golf outings, so have I. We all have been. But it is amazing. I have the ball marker in my pocket. It’s an amazing event. It, if you aren’t moved at that event, you’re not alive. Just go and be awake. It’s it is a, it is an amazing day. And then that night we sat there and, and Tiffany spoke. And I, and I remember when Tiffany spoke and I’m like, holy cow!

 

Like, I, I, I couldn’t believe this story. And, and, and really, I mean, and we’ve done other, we’ve heard, done other podcasts and other things about gratitude and about, about Veterans Day and right. I mean, we’ve done all because it is, it is truly a remarkable story. And just, can’t just can’t thank you enough. And encouraging people to, to get involved. I know there’s a lot of great charities, you know, and, but, but if it’s in your heart to, to really invest in people like Tiffany and it, and, and you know, the charity, what percentage of the money goes to towards scholarships?

 

Crystal:

91 cents of every dollar.

 

Greg:

It’s crazy.

 

Crystal:

Goes back to scholarships.

 

Greg:

It’s really good.

 

Crystal:

It’s unheard of.

 

Greg:

It’s really good.

 

Crystal:

It’s an incredible organization.

 

Greg:

It’s really good. Now, let me ask you, are we, are we, are we filling the need? Are we, do we need to find more like if someone needs a scholarship today, do they get it? And how do you build awareness for people that need a scholarship and don’t even know it exists?

 

Crystal:

Great question. So our mission is twofold here in Western Pennsylvania, first of all, to raise awareness, because when we set out on this mission back in 2019, nobody had ever heard of Folds of Honor. So we’re like, how are we going to raise awareness? So we embedded ourself in the military community. We built a military committee to really showcase what the mission is, who do you know that really would qualify for a scholarship? So that was the one mission. And then the other mission obviously is to raise funds because at that time we were not raising enough funds and we had qualified applicants that were getting turned away because of lack of funding. So we said, okay, we will not turn away any qualified applicants. Parallel to the goal of raising awareness. So everybody in Western PA knows about Folds of Honor. So last year, Folds of Honor, nationally, there was no qualified applicant that was turned away.

 

Every single applicant who qualified, received a scholarship. Mission accomplished.

 

Greg:

Mission accomplished.

 

Crystal:

Yeah. So we feel really, really good about that, but we still know that we have to continue. As Tiffany said, their community of folks who have been injured, disabled, or paid that ultimate sacrifice of death continues to grow every single day. Let’s look about what’s going on in the world. You know, our military, unfortunately, we’re losing them. And we don’t want that to happen, but we have to continue to take care of those families. So yeah, we have to continue to push forward.

 

Greg:

Hopefully everybody really appreciates that freedom isn’t free. And because Major Dan Rooney was awake one day. And because Crystal, you had a passion and you actually turned it into action. And Mike walked up on the stage that day.

 

 

Crystal:

When you talk about doing better and being better you know, and, and being an investment for people. Certainly there’s the investment that we all think about financially, but we talk about that legacy that you wanna leave behind. And you talk about the investment in other people. I feel like giving to other people constantly fills your giving bank again.

 

Greg:

Mm-hmm, <affirmative>.

 

Crystal:

You know it, it may not be a financial reward. For Mike and I, we, we have a full-time job, our careers, and that gives us the financial opportunity to do what we do here today to invest in other people. But that keeps our giving bank full. You know, we’re, we’re not spending all of our money. We, we we’re spending our, our passion to take care of other people. And I think that that’s sometimes what people miss in life. Take action, be an investment in other people and your giving bank will never go empty.

 

 

Greg:

I think that’s philosophical. I think people think that’s philosophical. I think it’s gonna end up being scientific. I actually think someday some scientists will prove that the brain, the more you give, the more you get. I just think that’s absolutely true. And what you said about legacy is — so many people think of it in terms of like there’s, there’s life, there’s death, and then there’s legacy. Untrue. You’re building your legacy as you live. Like what we spend a lot of time with, with our clients is: what are you all about? And, and that is helping them build their life and their legacy, and really being intentional about what they’re doing and having their portfolio support it. And, and legacy is built while you’re alive. I mean, I would challenge anybody that Crystal and Tiffany are building their legacy today, much greater than, right, than anything you’re gonna leave. You’re gonna leave these members. Andy’s legacy is, will go on for a really, really, really, really long time, you know, because of the sacrifice he made and because of Tiffany and because of Folds of Honor. So I think you could, I couldn’t, I don’t think you have said it better. I think that legacy is built based on the things you do when you’re alive.

 

Greg:

I think it’s well said. And I think a lot of the other ways are, you know, more powerful. I’m sure there’s ways to support financially, which, you know, you, we, we do need someone to fund the scholarships. But at the end of the day, it’s, it, it can’t just be checkbook charity, right? There’s more to it than that.

 

Crystal:

Well, and I think when, when you talk about diversity in your investments, there’s also diversity in each one, we’re, we’re all a different mold. And as Tiffany was talking about her son Myles and that, that counselor who said, you’re gonna have to think about a different path for Myles. He’s not gonna be able to go to college. So you think, you think about that message. And then you think about the skillset that everybody has. How can, how can you tap into everybody’s unique characteristics and, and drive it towards one singular mission to be successful and impact millions of people every single day? I think that’s what life is about. You know, we’re not, we’re not just here. There’s a reason why my husband Mike was at a work conference and was introduced to now Lieutenant Colonel Dan, there is a reason why we brought together a great team of people here in Western Pennsylvania to share the mission of Folds of Honor. There is a reason why Chris McKnight called you and said, Hey, you need to come to our golf outing. There is a reason why Tiffany was selected to be our keynote speaker that night. And here we are seven months later talking about that. And how do you drive those connections and those relationships that we have now built forward into the future to impact other people.

 

Greg:

Look at the look at the ripple effects. I mean, it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s a pebble in the pond, but the ripple effects are incredible. So, you know, when we, we talk about it’s more than just money and we would, you know, <laugh>, money’s good. Like we, we, we like people to participate by donating. So clearly, donations are important, but if I think about the charities I’m involved in the MVPs of the charities, candidly, now we appreciate all the donors, but candidly, it’s not the largest donor. The MVPs are the ones that live and breathe the charity and actually forward the mission, like, right? They, they’re, I mean, maybe you and Mike are the largest donors, I have no idea, but, but like your, what you’ve been able to create, right? Tiffany, what you’ve been able to do, it’s bigger than money.

 

Crystal:

And so you think about what Dan Rooney did and how he was able to duplicate and replicate out of his garage, one day formed Folds of Honor to now 32 chapters across the country, carrying out that ripple effect mission, and always attracting new volunteers that again, can host a fundraiser event or share the mission of Folds of Honor. And again, it doesn’t have to be about Folds of Honor. Find what really makes you tick and drive it home, find people likeminded or not likeminded, skill sets that are the same, skillsets that are different. And how can you make an impact moving forward?

 

Greg:

And the weirdest thing, you know, people are like, oh, that’s so unselfish. And it is, but it is amazing when you focus on other people, you focus on helping other people, you have a greater purpose other than yourself, and you really worked on, you knew who it helps the most? You! Like it’s a, if by focusing on others, it reduces anxiety. It makes you better at your career. It makes you a more complete person. It makes you a happier person. It, it is it is, it is, it is, it is really powerful for because you’re changing people’s lives, but it also has a huge impact when people have a purpose, you know? And, and, and then they, and, and, and you may have a purpose, but, but like you did, you built the canvas, right? You built the platform of which you now get to have.

 

Greg:

So, you know, now in October, up at Laurel Valley, there will be, you know, a couple hundred people there that you’re gonna tell the story to again, and it’s gonna have another ripple effect. So, you know, if you have a — you have to have two things. If you really have a passion out there, I give you get it. You you’ve gotta have the passion and you gotta have the audience. So build that. So you have to, you have to have a passion and an audience. And if you can build both, which we can help you do, if you build both, you can really make an impact on people’s lives. Like when you hear either Crystal or Tiffany speak, they have the passion and they’re building the audience and go on and change 35,000 people’s lives.

 

Crystal:

Everything falls into place after that. So—

 

Greg:

It falls into place.

 

Crystal:

And, and then piggyback that with how do we make it bigger and better? How do we continue to process improve things? So when we talk about two years ago, our first event, Top Golf, the day before COVID changed our world, $12,500, we raised to just two months ago, we raised $34,000 for scholarships for our military families. So again, sharing the mission, bringing new people to the fold who also have that passion and wanna share it. Yeah, we’re super proud of what we’re doing here, but I think you have to also you know, not always be asking for money and, and we become humble with that. And I think people are attracted to that passion and that excitement and, and Mike and I talk all the time. We probably work harder and longer hours for Folds of Honor that doesn’t give us a paycheck because that’s where our heart is.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Crystal:

But as I said earlier, that giving bank we’re, we’re still always full. We’re still always giving. We’re still, you know, donating our time. And, and then we now have other nonprofits reaching out to us saying, can you help us? Like, we’ve been doing this for years and, and we are not as successful as you. Can you, can you teach us something?

 

Greg:

So, so, you know, I’m just saying like, your success is amazing. So based on, based on Mike going to a conference, okay. Gets involved, walks up, shakes hands. Top Golf event, which is $12,000. Okay. 12,000 bucks. COVID. How much do you think you’ll raise this year at Laurel Valley? So Top Golf to Laurel Valley, two days. That that’s, I mean, that’s a, that’s an evolution of golf, right? So you go <laugh>. So now you’re two days at Laurel Valley. What’s the goal on how much money you’ll raise and how many scholarships you’ll be?

 

Crystal:

So, so two years ago, Laurel Valley, we, we got eight teams there last year, we sold out this year, we’ve moved it to a two-day event because there’s a waiting list of participants. We can’t handle enough.

 

Greg:

With a potential overnight. People can do that. I saw that.

 

Crystal:

Potential overnight. And we are looking to net over $150,000.

 

Greg:

Two years, 12,000, 150,000, because you have passion, you have purpose and you started the, and you started the mission before you thought you had all the answers. But your heart was in the right spot.

 

Okay. Crystal, you Mike have had incredible success and I, and I get that you made the commitment and then you figured it out. But now that you’ve figured out some things and you’re working on it for other people that want to duplicate your efforts, either in the same field or in a different field or a different passion, there have to, there, there, there, there’s gotta be lessons you’ve learned. So could you do a little bit of a cheat sheet on things you learned and things you’re working on to make sure Folds of Honor survives the test of time?

 

Crystal:

I think there’s lots of different lessons that we’ve learned. You know, first of all, it was just do it. Don’t figure it out and then do it, just do it, jump in. And you’re always going to learn from, you know, your successes and your failures, first of all. But then, meeting the right people was key and critical. Continuing to grow, continuing to spread the mission. But then we have to think about that succession plan. What happens when Mike and I are no longer carrying that torch? Who do we pass that torch onto? Certainly we have a great team of volunteers, a great board of directors that we share a lot of the load with, but who are we gonna pass that torch to? We have formed a young professionals board, really trying to identify the, the younger generation. You know, we, we got into Folds of Honor as kind of our after-career.

 

What are we gonna do with our life after our career to give back? But now we have to think about what are we gonna do to pass this torch for Folds of Honor. So we have a young professionals board, always looking for new people to bring into the fold and to share the mission and to kind of teach them our lessons learned so that they don’t have to fall or stumble as we have.

 

Greg:

Sure.

 

Crystal:

Over the last two years, you know and we’re really trying to make that footprint and, and roadmap for them that they can kind of even travel farther than we have. You know, certainly over the last two and a half years, we’ve gone from in our first year raising a hundred thousand dollars to this year, $400,000. So we know that that trajectory is not gonna continue. How can we sustain it and then teach other people how to do that same thing?

 

I think that’s really, really critical because as you talk about the legacy, what legacy do you wanna leave behind? If people don’t remember where you’ve been and what you’ve done, they will never learn lessons from it and be able to choose to duplicate it, replicate it, or to carry on a new mission. You know, I think that you have to have that succession plan in place. And so that’s something that we’re really starting to build the introductory or foundation for. As we continue to grow Folds of Honor here.

 

Greg:

I actually think that’s really, really thoughtful. And I think that lessons it’s simple. Like it, that’s not, like that’s simple. But it’s amazing how many people that don’t. And I don’t wanna make this about Confluence, but like parallel lives on this, right? So we, we’ve grown a lot. We, as we’ve grown, we’ve enhanced what we’re doing. I, I would say any of our clients would say that we keep, continue to improve on their behalf, but then the real mission, the real thing we think about is how do we continue to get better for the next 50 and 75 and 100 years? How are we when, when, when, when Greg has all gray hair and is gone and Jim, and how does the next generation or any of our advisors, how do we, how do we continue our legacy of helping families and taking care of grandchildren?

 

It’s easy to build a firm for 10 years. It’s easy to build a charity for 10 years. It is harder to build a firm or a charity that survives the test of time. That takes care of families, whether it’s through scholarships or through taking care of families’ lifetime savings, wealth, it, it, it’s harder. And, and so we think about this, not in the next five years, we think about this as the infinite game. How are we building this for the next 50 and 100 years? It’s amazing how many people don’t think about that when they pick an advisor. It’s amazing when people don’t think about that when they pick a charity. It’s really refreshing to hear you say that you and Mike are thinking about the infinite game of how to think about this 10, 20, 30 years. So people like Tiffany continue to be helped.

 

Crystal:

Yep. And, and again, even outside of Folds of Honor, we, we’ve had three other local nonprofits reach out to us to say, how are you doing it? And can you, can you help us? And I think that’s a testament to success that people a took the action to reach out for help. But also wanna carry on their legacy for their nonprofit. So we also do kind of pro bono consulting with three other nonprofits. Have you thought about this? You need to consider this. Moving forward, you should do this again. It’s not just about Folds of Honor, but as a whole community, we have that social responsibility.

 

Greg:

I think that’s great. I hope hopefully, you know, people listening, you planted a seed. And so it’s not just for Folds of Honor, which is awesome, but there’s, there’s other charities out there right now in people’s minds that could, that could, that could have the same ripple effect that, you know, that Folds of Honors have had for the 35,000 scholarships. There’s, there’s, they’re in people’s minds, they’re just in the “gonna” side. And, and hopefully in listening to you, you know, they take that one action, cuz you know, when you go into the gym, the hardest thing is opening the door. That’s the hardest part of the gym. After, once you get open the door, you’re good. So hopefully what you did today is inspire people to open the door to a charity, to then go on, to help a lot of lives. And so thank you so much for sharing.

 

And please everybody, in listening to these stories, let’s remember 1% of our country fights for the freedom of the other 99%. And let’s make sure we understand that freedom isn’t free. And if we’re ever in a situation like that airplane, let’s stay seated and let’s give our heroes the respect they’ve earned and deserved. God bless both of you and God bless our military.

 

Thank you for listening to the Imagine That podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode and welcome you to reach out to Confluence Financial Partners with your questions and comments. If you’d like to hear more episodes, head over to confluencefp.com/podcasts, or find us wherever you get your podcast.

Katie:

You are 42% more likely to achieve your goals that they are written down, and you are 76% more likely to achieve those goals. If you write action commitments and share weekly progress reports, imagine that.

(SOURCE: Gail Matthews, Dominican University, 2015)

 

Hello and welcome to the Imagine That Podcast. I’m your host, Greg Weimer, founder, partner, and wealth manager at Confluence Financial Partners. Each month we’ll explore new ways to help you maximize your life and your legacy and meet some extraordinary people along the way. So if you’re looking to get more out of your life today and legacy tomorrow, let’s get started.

 

Hello everybody, This is Katie Montagazzi here at Confluence. I’m the director of marketing and communication. Today, I have the privilege of having a conversation with Greg, who’s usually the host of the podcast. We’re flipping seats. Today I have the privilege of sitting in the room for all the podcast recordings and over the few, over the past three years we’ve been doing this. It’s been very obvious to me that Greg is a great podcast guest. So I’m taking the role of host today. Greg is a guest, if you will. And we’re going to talk about becoming the architect of your future. So this is a phrase that we’ve thrown, not thrown around, we use in internally here at Confluence. And it’s essentially the framework we use for, we’ll say, dreaming, understanding your why in creating, in, you know, five-year goals, one-year goals, quarterly goals, daily initiatives, and how that drills down into every single day what you do.

 

So Greg is a great example of somebody who uses this framework very well. So we’re going to walk through what it is, how to use it. And then I know Greg has some real-life examples of how he’s done this over his career.

 

So welcome Greg. Hey, that <laugh>, that sounds so weird. The becoming an architect, becoming the architect of your future. This is sort of the framework that we’ve been using internally for associates to plan both professionally and personally. I guess to start off, do you want to walk through the actual framework?

 

Greg:

Everybody wants to do goal setting, like, hey, okay, I’m a goal setter, but, but you have to ask like, why is it important? Like, you have to go back and say, and, and I’m sure there’s a gazillion of them, but there’s a couple moments in my life when I realized then, you know, one wasn’t that long ago, maybe a year or two ago, year ago maybe I was on social media and there’s this guy, Gary V and there was a woman that came running up to him in a cab and said like, Hey, gimme some of the greatest advice you can give me. And he looked at her and said, You’re gonna die. And we all know that, but I think when you start, and I don’t want to start it low, but, but I find it motivating. Like, because you, you have to allow it to motivate you.

 

You’re gonna die. And so that just helps you with the concept of life short. And you know, at my age, do I have 25 more Christmases with my kids? I don’t know. But I know if I only have 25, I’m gonna make sure every one of ’em is sort of special. So I think about, you know, how many days I this weekend, it’s so pathetic. I was calculating if I live like 20 more years, how many days I have in my life and what. So, so you start with that motivation of life is short. And there’s cert, there’s certain things that I feel like there’s certain things that are so true, but we, we just say so often we don’t really hear. And one of them’s like, grandchildren are the best. And I’m gonna tell you grandchildren are the best, but, but two is life is short.

And I think when you really understand that, that gives you a different motivation to make sure you maximize it. That gives you a different motivation to make sure you’re living your intentional life.

 

Katie:

You always say, and I think everybody can agree, a lot of people are really good at dreaming about someday, you know, someday I’m going to do X, someday I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do that.

 

Greg:

Gonna, they’re gonna.

 

Katie:

 

I’m gonna, they’re gonna, and then, so that’s cool. I like to dream.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

And then there are folks that do daily tasks really well, but those daily tasks are just tasks.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

If they’re not really connected to your dreaming about someday, you’re gonna have some issues, and in 20 years—

 

Greg:

Groundhog Day, they’re just doing Groundhog Day.

 

Katie:

And you wonder how you end up where you are. This framework does a really good job of connecting the dreaming with the daily tasks and everything in between. Can you share with us, back in your career, I think it was American Funds, you had this manifesto—

 

Greg:

I wanted to fundamentally change the way people thought about investing their money in western Pennsylvania, West Virginia. And if I did, so if I did that appropriately, I would help people retire without worry and become educated without limit.

 

Katie:

So that was your dream.

 

Greg:

I mean, I that yeah, that’s been a long time and we had not planned this. And it’s there. It’s, it was my passion.

 

Katie:

Yeah. So I just wanted to note or put into perspective, you have done that really well. Like I think in your career at American Funds, in your career here at Confluence, you’ve done that really well and you do it every day. And—

 

Greg:

I don’t know if we become lazy or more precise, but now at Confluence, it’s real simple. We wanna help people maximize their lives and legacies, I mean, right? I mean, that’s what we wanna do. Yep. And so we’ve a little more precise than that long paragraph I wrote, so, you know, back in the day.

 

Katie:

Yeah. I thought it was, I thought it was good though. <Laugh>. Yeah. So finding your why, so that was your why back then.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

Finding your why now, how, maybe share a little bit of your why even though it can change, but—

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

—most of the times it’s the same thing. And then maybe Confluence our why.

 

Greg:

Like, it’s sort of the same because — it’s all the same. Like I don’t really have Confluence and my life, it’s just — I may have told this story on a different podcast, but my wife and I were in Turks and Caicos and a really cool dude, like 80 years old with a bandana that was really successful. We were one of those huts on the bar at a bar having a drink. And, and he said to me, son, he said it, it’s all about figuring out what you’re all about is all about. And that really caused me to think about what I’m all about. And it’s changed over the years. You know, you, you just get a different vision and you get something that motivates you and you and, and you and you probably get a burst of precision. So I thought, you know, I wanna be an impact.

 

I wanna be an impact in people’s lives. Like, I, I wanna be, you know, like, like there’s hock— we’ve been blessed in Pittsburgh with great hockey players, whether it’s Lemieux or Crosby, and they make everyone around them better. And I don’t want that to sound arrogant. I really want to be that person that makes everyone around me better. And, and, and I, and I want, I want their lives to be better. And in Confluence, I think that can mean, you know, help people literally maximize their life and the portfolio should support their very best life. And they’re going to have a legacy. They might as well design it and be the architect of it. So let’s have ‘em let— And by the way, part of your, part of your legacy is, is exists while you’re alive. You’re creating it, you’re creating it in moments. So yeah.

 

So it’s really about making an impact and helping people maximize their lives and legacies. And when you can get— And, and by the way, I really, I really force myself to be, to be vivid in what that looks like in 10 or 20 or 30 or 40, 50 years. Because the more specific I get and what it looks like, the more passion and motivation I have about creating it. So, so, so I, I was listening to some stuff over the weekend. I realize I probably could get a little clearer on that. Like, what does that mean in, in 50 years I won’t be here. But you never know. So yeah, so it’s, it’s, it, it, it’s, you just, you get that vision of the future then you just keep working on, on making it better and crystallizing it.

 

Katie:

I will mention when we talk about your why and dreaming you all like, it’s you, you will say, but you will fight and get bloody for your dreams.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

You won’t do that for your goals. Yeah. So the passion and the emotion you just shared in that little two- minute rant, you just said like, that is super important.

 

Greg:

There’s a sports psychologist, Bob Rotella, he does a lot of the pro golfers and and I, I heard him speak. We were at Pebble Beach and so Bob Rotella came out to speak with us which was sort cool. And he said, Martin Luther King said, I have a dream. He didn’t say I have a goal. So you will get bloody, you will fight, you will have motivate, you will be motivated, you will be inspired to meet your dream. A goal, you’ll, you’ll work at it. Goals are good, dreams are better.

 

Katie:

Yeah. So finding your why dreaming, it needs to be emotional and really get you fired up inside, which is very obvious. You’ve, you’ve done that. Okay. So you have this massive dream, you have this idea that you want for your life, for your family over your lifetime. How do you filter that down to we go down to five year?

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

That actually seems like it goes from really big to really small, really quickly, but we always say, what does great look like in five years?

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

So how do you think about taking that big dream, putting it down into five-year increments?

 

Greg:

Well, the reason it’s five years is because 20 felt long. I started with my, my my 20-year goal. So I really started, I think I, I think I was, if you don’t have “beach it” time, you gotta have “beach it” time. And I don’t know where your “beach it” time—

 

Katie:

What’s “beach it” time?

 

Greg:

“Beach it” time is like it when we go away. I have a, I have a little picture in our house in Naples that says, you know, my other office. And it, and it’s a, it’s a, it’s a chair on the beach and, and you need dream time. So I had “beach it” time and at a family vacation in Hilton Head. And I sat there and I thought about, okay, so what do I want the next 20 years to be like and what do I need to do like, you know, daily to make that happen? Which is cool. And I still do that, but, but for a lot of people thinking about 20 years is like way too. Like it’s just, it’s just like too much. So you should have that. But then what we really do personally and professionally in Confluence is we say, Okay, five years, you start with the end.

 

You don’t take your current whatever and multiply times whatever. You say like, okay, for me to like kill it, for me to be like high fiving in five years, like what, what is my, what do I need to look like? What is it? It could be your health, it could be your wealth, it could be what, it could be whatever that is what has to happen in five years for it to be awesome. And so you have to have quantitative, qualitative. And so we put together our five-year goal and say, okay, in five years, I think, I think all of Confluence knows what our five-year goals, I hope. But we have a pretty specific, here’s what we want to be in five years. And, and I and our clients will benefit from that and our associates will benefit from that. But, but we’re pretty precise on where we want to be in five years from service, et cetera.

 

Katie:

I think this is a good point. A good time to bring up the art of pivoting. Oh yeah. That’s a, I don’t— a buzzword that you use a word that you like.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

A theme. When we set five-year goals, once you identify those five-year goals, it’s probably, it probably behooves you that you need to pivot. You have to pivot. If you want to accomplish things, you have to understand that you have to, there’s different seasons of life in between those seasons is pivoting.

 

Greg:

Life happens and things happen. A great running back, you know, a great running back can pivot and go in a different direction if they have to, to find the open space so they can score. And you have to be able to pivot. You have to be able to change speeds. And I think if you’re gonna lead a business or if you’re gonna be successful, you have to know when to pivot and, and in, at Confluence I think we pivot pretty well. And I think we change speeds pretty well. You know, I mean hopefully by the time people are listening to this, the down market is over. But my guess is it may not be. And we’re pivoting. I mean, we are, we are really thinking through our — we’re thinking through everything. And making sure that we’re doing everything humanly possible to communicate well and invest well for our clients. You gotta pivot.

 

Katie:

You have your, your dream, five-year goal. Now we’re talking about annual initiatives, annual goals. At Confluence, I’m thinking about our five-year plans and me being marketing, understanding what my one-year initiative needs to be over the next — well we haven’t drilled down into quarters even right now. But annual

 

goals, how, if you give some advice on how to take the five-year goal and then understand each year what do I need to do?

 

Greg:

Yeah. So you have to like take that, that that five-year big vision and you say, Okay, so what does that mean mathematically has to happen? What does that mean, like initiative-wise has, has to happen? Listen, I’d like to do all of the— I’d like to my— I don’t like— I’d love to take the whole five years and put it in the next quarter. And people try to do that and they get nothing done. So you say, Okay, these are, these are all important, but when you build a house and you’re the architect of your future, you, you build certain foundations so then you can ultimately do the decorating.

 

 

 

 

 

So what we do then is we, we take the five years, we break it up into annual into the, the, into the individual specific years. And then we put the big rocks that we have to accomplish and every year to get to the five- year vision. So and, and then by the way, in the next, the ones that are going to happen in the next year, like fourth quarter, good news, and I, I know this may be over already, but in this quarter, I think we have all of our rocks pretty well met. And it, it, so I think we’re good. But, but we, but we put together our rocks and so then if if it’s in, if it’s over the next year, we will, we will then break it down quarterly. And so, okay, so in the next year we can’t do all of ’em in the first quarter like we want. What do we have to do quarter by quarter when you’re one year out? So, so we’re taking our, our what’s it all about? all about.We’re saying what does five years look like? So we’re on that trajectory and what do we need to get done annually to get to five years? So we’re matching our activity with our vision.

 

Katie:

This seems like it’s like Pandora’s box, but annually goes down to quarterly—

 

Greg:

No, no, you know those little dolls they open up, keeps getting—

 

Katie:

Right, exactly.

 

Greg:

 

Well it is like that.

 

Katie:

I dunno what that’s called.

 

Greg:

I don’t either, but it, but it’s what it is.

 

Katie:

Yes, yes. So quarterly initiatives. So I will, so obviously when you identify the annual goals, initiatives you need to accomplish that are like, just need done, it’s a, it’s a fact of life. Quarterly, quarterly accelerators is what we call them here at Confluence.

 

Greg:

If you pivot, you gotta start to accelerate?

 

Katie:

Right, yeah. So they’re—

 

Greg:

Or it’s a stop.

 

Katie:

Right there are goals, but you’re accelerating into the quarter.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

So for example, and I’ve never done this, but a lot of people like have a word of the year.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

 

Type thing. That might be like the theme of the year.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

But we have for, when we’re recording this now, it’s the fourth quarter of 2022. And we think it’s really important for us to engage with our clients and our network and our friends and whoever because the market’s not great right now. We can all agree if hopefully this’s not the case when this podcast comes out, but who knows. But our word is engage. So that word triggers in our heads how we are going to accelerate in the fourth quarter and help our clients get through this time. We don’t always have a word, but that’s the word for the quarter.

 

Greg:

And that’s engage.

 

Katie:

That word informs all of us at the Confluence, whether it be the advisor level, associate level—

 

Greg:

Feel like I need to go into the engage—

 

Katie:

Right.

 

Greg:

Engage Maverick.

 

Katie:

That’s a good example. Okay, we won’t do that. But anyway, that word really helps us understand—

 

Greg:

We do that internally, right? Engage Maverick. It’s time to engage.

 

Katie:

 

Yes. It’s time to engage. So as a team, that word to us for the team means something for everybody differently in, in the team, but the whole theme of the quarter is engage. So I don’t know if that’s helpful for on a personal level, if you’re listening to this and you’re not a part of Confluence internally, but—

 

Greg:

By the way, we wanna, we wanna have a thousand engagements. And that’s the, this quarter. So then we will, we’ll engage. And then we all be at Nemacolin celebrating in, I think it’s, I forget when it is, April. April or something like that.

 

Katie:

Yep.

 

Greg:

We’re gonna take all of our associates, all of them and their spouses are significant others to Nemacolin to celebrate that we engaged. And we’re gonna celebrate the fact that hopefully those engagements helped a bunch of investors.

 

Katie:

That’s right. What are quarterly accelerators?

 

Greg:

Yes. What are the three things that I really need to change, accelerate, pivot this quarter? I think if you get 4, 5, 6 sevens too many, what are the three things you really need to get done this quarter? It’s not your normal activity. That’s a change. It’s an acceleration of something or something you’re doing different. What’s your, what’s your three things that you need to get done that, that are really gonna be game changers in your life, your career or business, whatever that is. So everybody has three of those that are by the way, in line with your annual goals. So it’s all, it’s like, you know, you can see how it’s that thing, right? So it goes to your quarterly goal. So what you’re doing is you’re taking your five-year goal, you’re looking at it, you’re looking at your year and you’re saying, Okay, I get it. Now what do I need to do in this, this quarter for the end of the quarter for me to make significant headway on that five-year goal?

 

Katie:

And if you do that four times a year?

 

Greg:

 

Magic.

 

Katie:

Magic. Three things you’re doing this quarter, how do you filter that down into your daily activities.

 

Greg:

Yeah. So own your calendar. Like if people are like, it amazes me, people don’t own their calendar and they just let it happen. Your calendar, and if you think about it, it’s true. Your calendar is your life. And a day is part of that calendar. And it amazes me how many people are not intentional about what they do that day. And it could be a date with your spouse, it could be something business oriented. But we encourage people to really come to the office and enter the day with intention. And that means that you should be doing things that are in line with your quarterly, five-year and what’s it all about. Now we all have to go to the grocery store. And I understand that’s not like, you know what, like what you’re all about. But we all have time to make sure we plan the day.

 

So, so I put on my daily goals every day I write my things, I need to do my tasks across the top every day. I put I put my three goals. So my three accelerators, every day are across the top, so they’re top of mind. I put some things I’m measuring there, every day, certain amount of things I want to get accomplished, they’re there. And then I think the most important is the N.M.W. My “no matter what.” My “no matter what” is the one thing I need to get done that day, that if I only did one thing, it would, it would put me on the trajectory of my five-year goal or the firm’s five-year goal. So by the way, if you do your most important thing, if you just did that one thing, the most important thing every day. If you’re working on spiritual, maybe it’s reading the Bible, whatever your thing is, and it can be different every day.

 

Mine is different virtually every day. If not, it’s just the normal stuff. But you know, you put your “no matter what,” but if you, but if you, if you really, really think about where you wanna be and you realize life is short and you realize you’re gonna die. And so you really realize that when you look out 20, 30, 40 years, that you’re gonna look back and when you look back, how are you gonna be remembered? What did you do? Did you make an impact? Did you live your dream? And then you have, okay, so what do I need to do to get on the right way? Go in the right direction in the next five years? And then when you break that down from five years to your “no matter what,” you have a way better chance of getting to the end and feel like, you know, you, you did your very best, you did life. It didn’t do you.

 

Katie:

 

So listening to you go through that framework again, I think it’s, somebody might be listening this might say, Wow, he sounds really obsessed with goal planning—

 

Greg:

He is.

 

Katie:

No, he is, I can attest that, but that kind of reverts back to when I said the beginning, the sports psychologist, Martin Luther King said, I have a dream, not a goal. You’ll get bloody, you’ll sweat, you’ll get your uniform dirty for a dream. So being obsessed is part of that. You have to be obsessed.

 

Greg:

Yeah, and it’s, you know, we talk about all the time in Confluence, I I probably mentioned on a lot of podcasts. I mean, we don’t work and we don’t play, we just live. So I’m also obsessed at enjoying getting a break and being in Naples. Now, do I still think about work? Yeah, I love it. I mean, I love it. But part of my goal was to have a place in Naples so I can share Thanksgiving with my entire family this year in Naples. So it’s not just, you know, growth of a business or proving our experience in the business. It’s, it’s also, I, I mean the house in Naples, for me, was about sitting around the table at Thanksgiving by the pool, enjoying time with my children and grandchildren. So it’s not just an obsession with the five-year business goal. It’s just really trying every day, you know, to, to understand I’m gonna die.

 

Katie:

Thanks for sharing all that. Not only we do this internally at Confluence, but we help clients understand the importance of life is short, you’re going to die, let’s help you plan, you know, a plan that maximize your life and legacy. We would love to help anyone listening, our clients, community, friends, network. We really live by this. We think we’re good at it, but we’ll always get better. We’re not, we haven’t really figured it out.

 

Greg:

Yeah, so I it’s for clients, listen, it’s like, I don’t wanna go in there, we’re gonna have to dream about 20 years and like everybody, like, Lighten up Frances, like that movie Stripes. No. You know, everybody thinks about it differently and, and, and like fly fishing, we, we can match the hatch. I think, I think the most difficult part of our job, and yet the most rewarding is when you can see a client light up. And when you can really, you know, talk to client about what the money’s about and what their portfolio is about and what, what their life’s about — without, you know, we’re not, we’re not overdoing it, but you know, you really say, Yeah, I’ve

 

worked hard. This is what I, or I this is, I wanna work hard. This is what I wanna accomplish. You can see it in their face.

 

Like when you can see, when I wanna educate my children, I wanna change this charity. I want to like I wanna be able to retire and have freedom. Like I, you know, whatever. I I remember my mom when she lit up, she said she wanted to retire cuz she wanted to be able to get up in the morning and have a cup of coffee and not rush outta the house. And I remember that moment. I haven’t thought about it for a while, but I remember that moment. And when you can see that in someone’s face, it’s pretty special. And in our firm, we have the ability to see that in people’s face and help ’em accomplish it.

 

Katie:

You’ve said before it’s a really, really good meeting if a client laughs and cries.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Katie:

Within the same meeting. So thank you Greg.

 

Greg:

We will not make you cry No

 

Katie:

<Laugh>. Unless you really want to. If you get the, you know, the emotions rolling. But yeah. Thank you, Greg. This was, I think this is helpful for listeners. It’s always helpful to have a conversation with you, so thank you and thanks for being my guest.

 

Greg:

Hey, thanks. I enjoyed it <laugh>.

 

Thank you for listening to the Imagine That Podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode and welcome you to reach out to Confluence Financial Partners with your questions and comments. If you’d like to hear more episodes, head over to confluencefp.com/podcasts or find us wherever you get your podcasts.

Confluence Financial Partners — Podcast Title | Episode #

GREG:

97% of individuals with a mentor feel they are highly impactful and valuable. Imagine that.

(SOURCE: Moving Ahead, 2017)

Hello and welcome to the Imagine That podcast. I’m your host, Greg Weimer, founder, partner, and wealth manager at Confluence Financial Partners. Each month, we’ll explore new ways to help you maximize your life and your legacy and meet some extraordinary people along the way. So if you’re looking to get more out of your life today and legacy tomorrow, let’s get started.

We’re gonna discuss several things today. First, we’re gonna go over Darrin Grove’s story. If you’re a business owner, or you’re fascinated how businesses get started and grow, you should listen. If you’re really looking to improve and you want to benefit from the lessons that Darrin Grove learned as he’s created Truefit, you should listen. If you wanna understand the value and power of having an appropriate ecosystem, you should listen. If you want to think about building a business that ends up being bigger than you, and really creates a legacy, you should listen.

Darrin is the founder and CEO of Truefit, which is a really fascinating company. It is a software development company. And, you know, I heard someone say from Raymond James, a friend of mine, said software will not replace people, but people that learn how to use software correctly will replace those that don’t. And, and I just think, I think that’s what it’s all about. So, Darrin and I started talking and I just became fascinated with his story. So and then I started thinking, so we’re gonna lunch after this, cuz I’m hooked. Like it makes me, it makes me realize that. And we’re gonna talk about a lot of different things by the way. But, but, but I think this really gives us an opportunity to talk about how you can really make a greater impact.

So before I go any further and tell your whole story, because I’m fired up about it, let me back up and, and, and allow you to just give us. So it was the late nineties, right? You’re like a coder. So like, right. And you’re like doing code and by the way, I was a computer science guy in college, which

DARRIN:

Oh, nice.

GREG:

On, on the cards. Like we used to do the punch cards.

DARRIN:

We are kindred spirits and I, yeah, I do go back far enough to have done some punch cards.

GREG:

Right. I did punch cards. So I, I could program in Pascal, COBOL, Fortran, BASIC. But, but, but, but I can’t—

DARRIN:

We have so much in common already.

GREG:

—but I can’t spell. So, and I know I don’t even know how to turn on my computer anymore. So things have changed, but, but let’s back up. So you’re, you’re doing coding and then you say, aha, I wanna do blank. And you start Truefit. How does that happen? Cuz there’s so many people that wanna do it, they wanna do it and they don’t, so how do you do that?

DARRIN:

Good question. Good question. So to give a little more context you know, I’m a native Pittsburgher I grew up around here. I love Pittsburgh. And my family has really kind of followed the trajectory of Pittsburgh. So my grandfather was a steelworker. Yeah. And my roots are in manufacturing. So I grew up as a maker. I grew up in a maker family. So I, when I became interested in technology, I was very interested in making software products and that, so that was my expression. You know, my dad made copper tubing. I made, I, I made software. So it’s, it’s a little bit like the kind of renaissance of the Pittsburgh’s gone through from a manufacturing town to a technology.

GREG:

I get it. That’s cool. But it’s interesting. I’m listening to you say I’m a maker and then I’m like, yeah, but he also is a grower.

DARRIN:

Right.

GREG:

Do you know what I mean? So like it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a little, it’s, it’s a different thing.

DARRIN:

Right. So, to fast forward, I was, I was working for a local manufacturing company.

GREG:

Yeah.

DARRIN:

Penn United Technologies in Saxonburg. And working with a great startup software company on a manufacturing system that we were implementing there from a company called Lilly Software Associates. We found them as a startup and we implemented their software very early. And that started a long-term relationship with Dick Lilly and Dave Lane, who was the VP of development. And we started creating, we, we started working together on the product, even though I was a client, I was the closest to the people who were using the software. And so really understanding the frontline needs of users really understanding the usability of the product. So I was kind of their frontline guy and I started creating product with them. This is in the early nineties. And at some point in time, we decided we should kind of take this to the next level. And so I approached Dave and I said, Hey, what if I spin on a tech technology company? I build a team here in Pittsburgh. And he said, it sounds like a great idea. And Dick Lilly loved it too. And so that’s how Truefit started. I should say that my first pitch to these guys failed entirely. So I, I was doing some custom development work on top of their platform. They, they hated that. Dick was allergic to custom development and for many good reasons that I learned later in life. So he was right about that. He said, I don’t want you to do that thing that you pitched to me. What I want you to do is create a new distribution product for us, cuz they were focused on manufacturing and they wanted to grow and expand into supply chains.

GREG:

Did that discourage you at all? I mean, because I think, you know, you’re, you’re first. So, so at this point you have felt 100% of the time. Was there ever like, okay, this isn’t for me or it’s like, Hey let’s—

DARRIN:

No, not at all. No. I mean, it was, it was grounded in the relationship I had with these guys. It was an inspiring alternative. And it, it, it happened faster than you might think, right? Like I didn’t really pitch this as you would pitch an investor, the way a startup company would work today and get rejected. And it wasn’t like that. We were talking about how we would work together collaboratively and he says, here’s what I really want you to do. And I didn’t know anything about distribution at the time that was brand new to me. And over the course of you know, the kind of the first season of Truefit’s life, if you wanna think about it, the first five years of Truefit I learned how warehouses work, I learned how you know, product flows through a warehouse efficiently. And you know, we put a system together that was competing with the top-of-the-line warehouse management systems, systems like Red Prairie and High Jump and Manhattan.

GREG:

And I think that’s one of the myths with businesses. I think everybody thinks like the entrepreneur knows all the next steps. Right? And you sort of like build the bridge as you walk on it, right. I mean a little bit. I mean, and, and, and, and I think that’s one of the biggest myths out there and I, and there’s something refreshing about that. You and I, before we started the earlier today, we started talking about how, you know, you have to, you’re not how to pivot and you’re, you know, you have chapters, you have to know how to pivot. You have to know how to evolve. And then if you don’t evolve and pivot as a business, you become stale, you become redundant. You no longer, you become irrelevant.

DARRIN:

Right.

GREG:

So that was your first. And then, and then where did you go from there?

DARRIN:

So that was season one. And so we focused, we built a team. We focused on that product, that product was rolled out nationally. And then we realized, Hey you know, as a business, we have one big client and that’s creating a ton of risk for us. And we were not clear. It was not clear to us at the time, how to take the next step and diversify as a business, without competing. What we knew was manufacturing and distribution. We didn’t wanna, we wanted to honor our relationship with Lilly. We didn’t want to compete with them. And so we experimented for five years. The next season of life. I think of it as our kind of our teenage years, trying to figure out what we want to be when we grew up, we experimented with a bunch of different ideas of how to diversify. Most of it was implementing other people’s products, which never felt like us. It never felt like what we love. And so for five years we were kind of in the wilderness trying to figure that out and everything. We tried failed everything. We tried for five years in season two, failed.

GREG:

Resilience. I mean, total resilience. And then the other thing is like, when I hear you say five years, some listeners are probably going like five years! Cause because it’s actually going on. I mean, that’s—

DARRIN:

I’m a slow, I’m a slow learner.

GREG:

No, but I think no, but I think it’s key. I think so many people do not run an infinite firm and try to run it for 5, 10, 50. I mean, we’re trying to build a firm for 50 to 75 years. Yeah. So if you’re thinking 50 years out and you can experiment for five years, not a biggie. Yeah. But if you’re thinking I wanna liquidate now or, I mean, I wanna exit in 10 years and I gotta experiment for five, that doesn’t work. So it’s just the value of having a long-term perspective.

 

DARRIN:

Right. Right. Yeah. And I, I would say, you know, I didn’t know how long, I mean, I would say I always, I did have a long-term perspective. I, I, you know, I wanted to build a great company and we had set out to do that. And you know, we were kind of values driven. And so we had a lot of kind of good foundational stuff. But season two was discouraging mm-hmm at the end of that and, and what kind of got us out of that was a kind of a big decision that we made.

 

I decided that in order for Truefit to reach its potential, I was gonna have to stop coding cuz up until that point in time, I was in architect building software. I had to stop coding, which I loved.

 

GREG:

Get it.

 

DARRIN:

And I had to learn how to sell and I pivoted my career at that point.

 

GREG:

And, by the way that’s big — you don’t think coder, salesperson, right? I mean, there no offense.

 

DARRIN:

No, no, no. I, I get it. I get it. And, and you know, a lot of people think I’m weird in that, in that regard. Yeah. But, and it was not easy. I can say that. I can, it was not easy. It was the right decision looking back on it. And we didn’t have a culture of sales at the time. And I had all kinds of misconceptions about sales. I thought.

 

GREG:

I’m sitting thinking, I don’t even know what it is. And people would laugh hearing me say that. But for me sales is, I just, I just fall in love with what we do. And I tell everybody what we do. I fall in love and tell everybody about it. I don’t know. Like I don’t, I don’t even know how to ask for business. So like, I mean, it’s, it’s, I don’t. So what did that mean to you?

 

DARRIN:

I had, I had real bad stereotypes in my head and I think most of the company did as well. Cause it wasn’t just me, but I thought, you know, what salespeople do is talk people into doing something that they don’t wanna do. And a seasoned friend of mine, who’s a lifelong sales professional, very successful, said to me, you know, look, Darrin, and this was the aha moment for me. He says, look, sales is about helping people and you love to help people. And I was like, okay, like I get it. Like I get it. It took me a while to absorb that. But what I did at the time was I, I basically turned that relationship over the, the big relationship with software over to my number two guy. At the time I started with zero customers, zero revenue and zero idea what I was doing and decided I was gonna learn how to sell. And that was really the first time, honestly, that we did a lot of business in Pittsburgh. Mm-Hmm because the warehouse product was a national product. We were working with clients all over the country. Nobody in Pittsburgh, we’re 10 years in, nobody in Pittsburgh knows who we are.

 

GREG:

What year is this?

 

DARRIN:

This is well, it’s like 2007-ish.

 

GREG:

Yeah, I got it.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah. 2000, 2007-ish. We did some good work there. But the other ingredients that made that successful, I did a project. I worked with branding firm called Clear Brands. Brian Cubarney is a, is a genius. And Brian came in Brian’s superpower is he does organizational DNA testing. So he comes in and he like figures out what our true passion is. Mm-Hmm and he’s the guy that said to me, you guys love creating innovative products. Mm-Hmm you guys are product creators and really helping people innovate and figure out the next thing. And we were like, mm-hmm , that’s what we did on day one, by the way, way that’s that was back to our roots at the time. But we went through the desert of like trying to figure out what we wanted to be when we grew up.

 

GREG:

But those dots are so easy to connect.

 

DARRIN:

You’d think .

 

GREG:

Well, no, but no, but you you’re going like, okay all sales is, which I couldn’t agree more, is really trying to figure out how to help people. Yeah. And guess what? We create things.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah.

 

GREG:

That help people.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah.

 

GREG:

So this is like really cool. Darrin’s in the middle and make and connects those two dots.

 

DARRIN:

You’re, you’re yeah, hindsight’s so much, it’s so much easier to see that in hindsight than it did was at the time I, like I said, I’m a slow learner. So it did take me a lot longer to figure that out than I wish. So young people, cuz I’m a big believer in mentoring. We can talk about that in a little bit. But so when people are asking for advice, you know, like what’s the one thing that you wanna leave us with at the end of this,

 

GREG:

The one thing is there’s not one thing.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah. but, but one of the things I will say to them is learn to sell. My son’s working on a little startup project. I’m working with him now actually. And I, I said, man, if I would’ve learned, when I was your age, you know what you’re learning now, about selling, truth, it would’ve like gone a lot faster. Let’s put it that way. So it took me years and years to learn how to do that. And then season three for us was, you know, this is, think about it 2007 is when kind of mobile technology came.

 

GREG:

And how many, how many associates did you have then?

 

DARRIN:

Probably mid-twenties.

 

GREG:

Okay. Yeah.

 

DARRIN:

I would say.

 

GREG:

So now you have it in people. Yep.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah. So, so think about what was happening technically in 2007, that was the beginning of the kind of the mobile technology boom, right. And we had been early to the game in mobile and so we started creating mobile software products, apps. Everybody wanted an app; we heard all kinds of crazy ideas. It’s interesting.

 

GREG:

So we feel like apps have been around forever apps started like, like really, we didn’t download.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah, 2006, 7, 8, 9.

 

GREG:

That’s fascinating. Right.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah. So if you think about again, what was happening then Apple was driving user experience design. Well, we were a team of engineers. We were very engineering centric. And so we spent the season three creating awesome mobile and web solutions and, and kind of starting to learn about user experience design and the importance of creating value for users, the importance of research. And we had hired a couple people, but then I, I we had done some projects with a local design firm called just design that was run by a guy named John Beck and to make a long story short, we really loved working together. We saw the value of kind of joining forces. John approached me and said, Hey, we’re thinking about kind of restructuring. We’d like to join forces with a larger firm. We think that might be you. And so that ended up with our very first and only acquisition mm-hmm in 2014 the kind of the end of season, season three, with John and I joining forces and us starting to integrate the practices of design and engineering, which are turns out to be really, really critical and important.

And so season four for us was about creating these really high performing cross-functional product development teams. So combining user experience, design, product management, mm-hmm architecture and engineering and quality testing. Today we work in cross-functional teams that have all of that, those ingredients and we’ve tuned up those teams over time to have, you know, just the right ratio. So we have six teams across the company today and that team can start with a concept for a new product and out the other end comes a successful commercial product.

 

GREG:

By the way, that that could be a whole podcast because we work in teams here and getting the right personalities, the right expertise. You know what? I don’t want to make this a commercial anyway, but like our Investment Advisory Committee, we have, we have financial advisors that are practitioners, the physicians. We have people that work in the lab, CFAs, CFPs, that, that, that don’t work directly with clients. And then you have leaders from, from our business and you put ’em all together and you get a cross-pollination. Usually a team is made up of similar people. So just all investment people, all practitioners, you know, so that the lab people never really see a patient, you know, whatever. So it’s having that right team. I think there’s a whole getting the right people in the room is, is a, is a big part of the win.

 

DARRIN:

Right. And we’re take a different approach than a lot of companies take with this, which is kind of part of the success. So we were really tightly integrating these teams. So designers and engineers were working very closely together to make sure we understood the problem that the product intended to solve for whom you know, who the user is, making sure they’re creating value for the user, but then understanding what it takes to actually build it and bringing those things together. So the needs of the user, the needs of the market, the needs of the business, and kinda what it takes to build this because software products are very expensive to build. So you can’t just design anything and build it. You’ve gotta create efficiencies so that you’re using capital wisely. Right? And that’s one of the things we really work closely with our clients to do is making sure that they’re making the right investments in the software and that they’ve thought through their business plan. Mm-Hmm so that when we build this product, they it’s gonna be successful in the market. And they’re going to grow it into a successful business. Almost everybody we work with is either starting a software company or starting a software line of business within an existing company.

GREG:

Yeah. And that’s where we are. Right. We’re, we’re having lunch after this. And, and that’s what I wanna talk to you about. I think, I think the opportunity to have we’ll never get away from, and, and never is a strong word. And I’ll say it again. We will never get away from understanding the relationship is key, but we can enhance and improve that relationship with proper software. And effectively, I heard you, you know, help, help a lot more people. Right. And so our we’re really looking forward as a, as a potential customer at some point to be able to do that. And, and I just think it’s, I, we’ve been, we, in fact, we have an, we have an offsite next week where we’re all gonna get together and, and start to brainstorm about what some of those products would be.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah. But it’s grounded in the belief that great software helps people thrive. Right. That’s kind of the core of it, which is exactly what you just said. Great software helps people thrive. That’s what, that’s what motivates us. That’s what we’re passionate about applying technology so that it improves people’s lives. It makes the world better.

 

GREG:

It feels like we’re there. Like it. I, I like, I wanna know, 20 years ago there was so much technology. Now, the technologies evolved. In my opinion, too, as I sit here with an iPad, and I notice you didn’t bring one in. So it’s interesting. The technology guy is just off the cuff. The software is so good right now, but I feel like it does now, now for me, and for us, it feels like now it needs to be customized for our business.

 

DARRIN:

There are so many different applications for it. I, I still think there’s so much potential for technology. If you look at where technology has come, even over the course of you’re in my career, like you talked about punch cards at the beginning of this right now think, you know, that, that, you know, we carry around in our pocket more power than it, you know, than the Apollo space mission had on their flight to the moon. You know, that’s crazy. That’s, that’s pretty awesome. And we’re only just scratching the surface mm-hmm of, of the potential. So if you look at, you know, we talked a little bit about mobile and kind of the mobile era now that is ubiquitous. Like everybody has a phone in their pocket.

 

GREG:

Okay. So listen to the dinosaur ask the question. When you say mobile?

 

DARRIN:

An app, an app running on your phone. Okay. Got, or, or a mobile experience that I can, I can interact with my product on the go. Now not let me say this. Not every product needs to be a mobile product. There are products, there are jobs that you do at your desk and a browser’s the best place to do those jobs. But for very many applications, there’s a remote component. I wanna be able to do something when I’m on the go.

 

GREG:

Yep.

 

DARRIN:

And so we think through that, and we help people that have the experience, the, the, one of the big trends that we’re seeing now is connected devices, right? So the internet of things, devices, appliances hardware in our world will be connected. So we’re working on a really several really interesting connected device projects. You see this a lot in, in healthcare with medical devices being connected you’re seeing it more and more in consumer with home products being connected. So medical device hook up your pacemaker, whatever, he’ll keep your, you know, heart monitor and the doctor looks at it and you’re at home, or, you know, I’m, I’m you know, I’m diabetic, I’ve got a monitor that monitors my glucose and sugar. I, I can see that on my app. I can use that to help manage my health—

 

GREG:

Right, Children’s Hospital, by the way, they, they, you know, they can, they can remote. So, because they’re so used to looking at children and being with children and being with children that have heart issues, they can then remote into the other hospitals and go on rounds and check heartbeats, et cetera.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah. We did a, we did a really interesting product years ago with a couple of doctors who had physical therapy practices. And it essentially you know, these guys are, they’re top shoulder surgeons. They operate on mm-hmm quarterbacks and pitchers and those kind of guys. So after you have shoulder surgery you, instead of going to a physical therapy office and signing up for all in-office appointments, they would hand you an iPad and some wearable sensors, and the iPad would show you how to do your exercises correctly. The sensors would track you doing them in real time, and this is pre COVID by the way. So if you think about remote physical therapy in the world of the pandemic, you can go like, wow, that was yep. Insightful. But so they would have people doing their exercises at home, but all the data would be tracked and, and the user would get real time feedback about whether they’re doing it correctly. And the physical therapist would have a dashboard to see all their patients, you know, who’s green, who’s yellow, who’s red, who needs attention and needs a call and needs to come in and learn how to do it better. And who’s fine. And recovering well. And are our plans of care actually working? And are they effective? Which if we tweak it, which plans of care are more effective than others? So you can do a lot of things with a solution like that, applying technology to physical therapy. So that was a fascinating, connected device product that we worked on for, for a while.

 

GREG:

Yeah. Again, I see it happen at Children’s and it’s interesting how COVID has accelerated it. Right. So now all of a sudden telemedicine is, wasn’t doing well, now it’s doing great. You know, as we sit here today, there’s four of us. And I don’t think we could have done this three years ago. Right. We couldn’t have, I mean, there’s four of us in this room and then I’m looking on the screen. There’s another, I don’t know, three or four on the, on the screen, which remote. Right? In Zoom. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting. We would not have been, I don’t, we would’ve done this three years ago. Everybody would’ve been in the room so, or, or whatever. Yeah. It’s just a different world. Okay.

 

DARRIN:

So connected devices are big, but to touch again, without going down the rabbit hole of, of what meta’s all up to VR and AR is a very interesting trend that, that we’re, is, is gonna have a big impact on our lives. And so we’re paying very close attention to VR and AR, starting to do some R&D in that world. It’s, it’s, it’s nascent, it’s still early for that technology, but that is going to really influence our lives over the next 10 years.

 

GREG:

For our listeners that have no idea what that is.

 

DARRIN:

Oh, sorry.

 

GREG:

And the guy from Johnstown across from you .

 

DARRIN:

So virtual reality is, is what so VR. Yeah. Virtual reality is you know, what you’re seeing in gaming, but now in a lot of applications, so industrial training applications, medical surgical applications virtual reality has a lot of like really interesting applications. I’ll give you, I’ll give you one I’m involved in a, in a venture fund that just invested in a, in a company that does language learning. And so what’s the best way to learn a language, Greg?

 

GREG:

Go to the country.

 

DARRIN:

Go to the country. Right. Okay. So talk about a really practical application of virtual reality. What if I could go to a country or it’ll least be put in a context, like a restaurant where, where we’re speaking Spanish and I’m learning, trying to learn Spanish, and I have to order a meal and I have to pay my check and I have to do all these things. So the company does that. I think that’s an interesting application of virtual reality. And, you know,

 

GREG:

That’s, that’s amazing how many possible.

 

DARRIN:

That’s a metaverse idea that I think is actually practical. I think there’s a lot of metaverse ideas that are kind of—

 

GREG:

Yeah. Yep. Got it. But I don’t know, it’s, your business is fascinating and it’s you wanna talk, I mean, our business certainly is evolving, but, but yours is really interested in, you know a lot of opportunities. So now let’s back, let’s back up because we went over a lot of stuff. Now let’s talk about how we can, you know, help people from your experiences. So like, if, what are some of the things you learned? I mean, I, if you wanna touch a little bit on the pivot and the importance of seasons, and I heard you say something about mentoring, like these are real concepts that are evergreen. They, you know, that that probably need to be talked about.

 

DARRIN:

Yeah. It, it, it’s been interesting to look back over the time because this year we’re celebrating our 25th anniversary in February. Yeah. 25, 25 years. So that’s roughly five seasons of life. And, and we didn’t set out to like, these have these nice, neat five year, like that wasn’t part of the, that wasn’t planned. That just kind of happened. But we found that we’ve kind of reinvented ourselves every five years, and I think it’s really important to pay attention to how you need to evolve. And you need to kind of look for the next level and have a vision for that and be willing to be a lifelong learner. You have to continue to learn as technologists. It kind of comes with a territory, but, you know, then there’s all kinds of things like, you know, going from engineering to sales, where it’s like, I didn’t set out to learn that, but it’s what the business needed at the time. And so that’s what we’re gonna do.

What I’m doing right now is like right now, this month is starting to shift my attention from learning sales, to learning marketing. And it’s a whole world that we honestly haven’t figured out yet. We’re not really great at marketing. And I would say we don’t have a clear idea of how to do it in a way. That’s awesome. I mean, this podcast is a great marketing tool and similar to some ideas that we’ve had but kudos to you for kind of figuring that out and integrating it into how you go to market. So, so I’m, I’m a student, I’m all of a sudden, a student of marketing and I’m learning and I’m working with a coach and I’m but it’s a whole thing for me to learn. And I don’t know anything about it.

 

GREG:

Isn’t it fun? I, I find it’s, I find people that are like you, right. You’re always trying to figure it out. I find that fascinating. And, and what I, what I, what I, what I observe are intelligent people are always trying to figure it out. When I’m with people that think they have figured it out, it makes me crazy frustrated. I, they know it, they got it. Like there’s people in our business. They have it figured out I’ve been in the business for 36 years. I’m still trying to figure it out. By the way podcast. It’s not like I sat down to figure it out. Someone had asked me to be on a podcast five years ago, six years ago, seven years ago. I had no idea what it was. I come into the room. I’m like, what are we doing? And now that, then next thing you know, we have a podcast. It’s just, it’s, it’s also just being open to opportunities, but, but there is a real, the lifelong learner is key. And then knowing when to pivot, you know, we, we have evolved and we have evolved and we always say, oh my gosh, we are so much different than we were five years ago. And, and that is not to criticize what we were doing five years ago. It’s just, we’re gonna say that again in five years from now.

 

DARRIN:

Right.

 

GREG:

But, but knowing when to pivot and continue to learn is key, right?

 

DARRIN:

Yeah. It’s, it’s really ingrained pretty deeply in the Truefit culture is continuous improvement and kind of thinking about how we can always be better. That’s where the team construct came from. Yeah. That’s where I, I joke that, you know, our process is called Idea Launch it’s how do you go from an idea to a, to a finished product, a successfully successful commercial product. And I joke that we’re on like Idea Launch 7.0. You know, like we’re, we, we keep evolving it and we’re about to go through another cuz we keep learning. And you know, when we do something like integrate design and engineering, it changed the whole thing. We had ideal launch before design, but when we put those things together and we started working with integrated teams, that process went to the whole next level.

 

GREG:

Right.

 

DARRIN:

Super, super important. The value we’re able to bring to clients has grown substantially over that, over that time, because we have been learning about design. I’m an again, I’m an engineer. So I, I tend to jump to solutions too quickly. So John, John Beck, our director of product design, it is always like, Hey, let’s stay focused on making sure that we’re solving a real problem. It’s like, and, and that is a fun journey and a kind of a frustrating journey, because like you said, you do bump into those people who, you know, have deep domain expertise and they think they know what this product needs to do. And the journey that we take them on is to really validate some of those things. But also, we point out that, you know, a lot of those things are assumptions that you’re making that we should validate. Right. And sometimes we do run into scenarios where like, they think, oh, the product needs to do a, B and C. And we talk to users, we learn from the market and like C is really important, but a, like nobody’s gonna use that. Right. And so that is when I talk about like really being smart about investment of capital.

Those are the kind of things that we learn with people learn with our clients that saves them money in the long run. Because while I’m, I’m thinking of one, one client in particular who had this idea, you know, a, B and C, and like through the research, we found out that like, nobody’s gonna use a right. And it was kind of his pet feature. And he could, he could have been really upset about that or really depressed that his product vision wasn’t gonna come to reality. But I was like, I just saved you like hundreds of thousands of dollars of building something that nobody’s going use building the right product is way more important than building the product that’s in your head. So how do you discover what the right product is to build? And that’s the journey that we take people on. That’s what Ideal Launch is.

 

GREG:

As I listen to you, the integrity comes through. Clearly you understand your business, clearly it helps your client make a, a great decision, but you know what else I’m sitting or thinking, you know, I wanna work with people that think about our problems and come up with solutions even when we’re not together. My guess is if you’re at the Penguin game and you’re working with Confluence, you’re still thinking about right, you have an active mind and, and do you know what I mean? It’s like people, I, I think, I think that’s why people work with us. I mean, we continually are thinking about our clients. It’s not just the hour that we’re with you and you could just hear you listening. You’re always, you, you know, you have a very, a very active mind, very growth mindset.

So you’ve built an incredible firm. Let’s talk a little bit about outside your firm. Cause I also know you mentioned me mentoring and I hear people talk about mentoring. I hear people talking about network mentoring, networking, and really, I think being in the right ecosystem right. Is incredibly important. Right. And, and, and so let’s talk about how you built and by the way, for the listeners, think about your ecosystem. It is so challenging to be successful if you’re not in the right ecosystem. Right. I mean, if you want, you’ve gotta be around people like Darrin, you gotta be around people that are, that are thinking you gotta be. So how did you build that ecosystem?

 

DARRIN:

That’s interesting. Looking back on it, I, I, I had the privilege of starting out in a really strong ecosystem. So Penn United as a company was run by a group of leaders that were just fantastic. I mean, they were, they were trying to build a great company. They were integrating their faith and their work life. I learned a lot about that back in, back in those days. And so when I started Truefit, I kind of was, felt like I was a little on my own because I had been mentored by these guys. And I was in my, in my late twenties. I started Truefit when I was 29. At that time, I said, okay, I there’s a couple guys I wanna meet. And I started showing up downtown and I, I, I met, I chased down a guy named Fred Federoff. Many people from Pittsburgh will remember Fred. He was the, he did so much good for the city. He’s kind of an elder statesman of Pittsburgh. He passed on years ago, but I wanted to meet Fred. And I, so I chased him down at a seminar and I invited him to lunch. And Fred became a mentor of mine for 10 years. 10 plus years until his last day. He was, he was, he, I learned so much from him, a lunch with Fred was intense. He would just ask you questions the whole time, but they were such the right kind of penetrating questions and really made you think.

And so I’ve had a, over the years, I’ve had a series of relationships like that. Jay Roy, who was the president of federal home loan bank was a mentor of mine. We had lunch regularly for many years. I, I really credit a lot of the person that I’ve become to these guys. I get it, Bruce Bickle, another great. He was a, he was at PNC. Yeah. For a while. Bruce is an amazing, amazing guy. Some of these guys are still with us, some of these guys aren’t anymore, but these are, I think of these guys as the elder statesman of Pittsburgh. And I had the privilege of learning from them for many, many years. And big part of who I’ve become is, was very dependent on that and was shaped by them. So I think it’s always important to have people that are kind of older and further down the path.

And I would take the hardest questions of the day. I mean, being a leader is really, really hard and I there’s always a problem to solve. I, I was on a phone call right before I come over here, solving very hard problems about a, you know, a deal we’re doing with a large global company, being a leader is hard and you need to be able to have those conversations. I think it’s also important to have peers, kind of peer mentoring. So people that are in the same stage of the journey in the role that you’re in. So for probably two decades, I’ve had a monthly dinner with a group of CEOs. We all kind of see the world the same way, have the same belief system all in various stages of our journey as CEOs, but we have dinner every month. And I, that’s a kind of a wisdom council that I go to and I ask hard questions and I get good feedback. There’s, for-profit people, nonprofit people. There’s you know, it’s a diverse group. All I would say like-minded, but it’s important to have those kind of those people, particularly if you lead a company because being a CEO can be a very kind of lonely post. So it’s important to have those relationships.

And then I, I think it’s very important to be investing in next generation leaders. I think that’s super important. So a, a good mentoring ecosystem would be having a few people older, wiser, further down the road, having a few people that are in your role and having a few people that are next generation that you’re helping to navigate their navigate their, their course. And so there’s several people that have reached out to me over the years and said, Hey, will you meet with me? I always say yes. Like I always say yes, sometimes those relationships develop and become strong. We, we become great friends and we, you know, our families get to know each other. Sometimes this is one or two meetings and then you know, that doesn’t develop and that’s okay. You know, that’s, that’s, that’s fine. But I would say, you know, if I wouldn’t have chased down Fred, my life would’ve been poorer as a result of not having Fred’s influence. So if you’re a young person, I encourage my boys to do this. If you’re a young person, like find people that you wanna learn from and invite them to lunch and be prepared and ask them really good questions and see, see how that develops. So that’s been big for me as a, as a leader, as a Pittsburgher, it’s been, it’s been big.

 

GREG:

I think it’s essential. I hope everybody hear like, I, I, I, I’ve been blessed and privileged. I worked for American Funds for like 20 years. And so I was around some of the, you know, the best thinkers in this business. And I benefited from that for young people. Don’t be afraid to make that call. That one call can make a huge difference. In fact, today at 2:30, I’m meeting with a, I think it’s a junior to senior in college. He’s actually interning with a competitor and wants to come over. And so he set up a 2:30 meeting. And so it’s Friday afternoon, I’ve got 2:30. And so I’m gonna meet with him. I had someone else, you know, message me on LinkedIn. He was at Deloitte in in DC. And he was, he, I was in Florida, in Naples at our house. And I saw, I got a message coming in. He wants to get together. And I’m like, I wasn’t doing anything. I was watching TV outside by the pool. So I’m like, okay. And so here, he he’s working in our South Hills office, but here’s just a visual for all of, if you’re, and I know you, you said you, you, you, you went to a seminar. If you are at a seminar and the person on stage is someone you wanna meet, don’t walk to the exit, walk to the stage.

 

DARRIN:

Sure.

 

GREG:

It is amazing to me. Yeah. It’s amazing to me, like there’s a hundred people there and people are like, oh, I’d really like to meet that person. And then they walk to the exit, have a about you up on stage and say, hi, I’m Greg. And you’d be surprised how they respond, cuz no one does it.

 

DARRIN:

Right. Yeah. No, it’s, it’s, it’s critical. I always encourage people to make the ask. Right. Like make the ask.

 

GREG:

Wonderful. And then, you know, just a segue to the, the final part of this, you talked about the next generation of leaders and you know, you’ve created something bigger than you, which is, you know, which is I’m sure rewarding and, and fascinating and helpful humbling, a lot of and humbling and, and difficult. There’s always a problem to solve. I’ve told my wife for 30 some years, don’t worry next year will be easier. And she just laughs at this point, cuz it’s just not how it goes. Yep. But talk about your business. What do you think of when you think about your legacy?

 

DARRIN:

We spent a lot of time thinking about this. When we started the company, we started with a set of core values. You know, Jim Collins talked about the importance of core values and built to last. And I had read that in the early nineties. And so I, it was a value system that I learned at Penn United and that we started the company with. So when I started Truefit, I said, you know, here’s what we stand for. And people were, some people were like, that’s awesome. I want to join. And some people were like, not for me, that’s okay. But we were clear about our values. Recently within the last couple years, we’ve gotten really clear on the vision of the company and you know, kind of met with the broader team and you, you can find this on our website, but the, the, the high notes are, you know, we really do believe that great software helps people thrive. We’re building excellent teams, impactful software, successful businesses to be a catalyst for the common good. So the ingredients, there are excellent teams, impactful software, successful businesses so that people can thrive. That’s, that’s kind of the, the pillars of the, of the vision.

And so we’ve been asking ourselves the question, how do we have an exponential impact? It is not our goal to grow Truefit as big as possible. That is not, that is not the goal. In fact, you know, we think there’s some cultural limits because our, the culture of the company is so important to us. And as you grow, the culture changes. So I see all the time I would put us in a category of wanting, I think we’ll grow bigger than we are today, but I would put us in the category of being intentionally small to keep a super strong culture. But the question still remains. How do you have an exponential impact? So for example, let’s just take excellent teams. We’ve spent a lot of time making sure that our teams are constructed correctly, making sure that they’re working well, that they’re healthy, that people are taking that, that people are able to be effective. You know, it takes a lot of, you know, relational oil to keep a good team lubricated, right? So, so we, we’re very attentive to that.

And now we’re starting to have clients ask us, Hey, you know, we see how effective these Truefit teams are. Can you help us kind of grow our own team? And we have clients that are building teams that look exactly like a Truefit team in their company. So that’s, that’s a way of having an ex exponential impact because it reaches outside of our, our walls and really helps our clients be more successful. That was a key component by the way of the hard problem that I, you know, the call before this, that that was a key component of that conversation. How can we help these guys really be successful by helping them grow a team—

 

GREG:

With software?

 

DARRIN:

Right?

 

GREG:

So software, you know, personality, they analyze personalities, put the right diversity together.

 

DARRIN:

Well, I mean, keep in mind, we’re building products for other people, right? So we’re building a product that you are gonna own. Right?

 

GREG:

Right.

 

DARRIN:

So what, what, what do you need to maintain that product? Well, what do you need to grow that product? Software requires care and feeding, all software is never done. Right? A lot of people think, you know, I’m gonna build this thing and then it’s gonna build a set of features and it’s gonna be done. That’s not the way software works. It’s not the way the world works because everything’s always changing. So there’s, you’re gonna need to be adding new features over time. So it’s part of the educational process that we work with clients on, is helping them to understand that software’s never done that this is a, it’s got a life to it. You have to continue to work with it, the world of technology’s changing and you, can’t just, it’s not a static thing. It’s very much a dynamic evolving thing.

 

GREG:

Yeah. And in our business, it, it, so it feels like the standard is you solve a problem like that, right? Like mean now you solve a problem for a company, you solve a problem for a family or an individual. I think the next, the next level is you solve a problem. They haven’t even considered like that. That’s right. I mean, so you, like, in working with you with software, my understanding of what we need on software is probably pound comparison to what, you know, the software could do for our business. Right. And so it’s for, and say for, same for us, I mean, if a client wants to just buy some investments, you know, a lot of people could do that, but, but there’s another level of helping them maximize their lives and legacies. So it’s a different level.

 

DARRIN:

Right.

 

GREG:

And so, you know, I’m, I’m sitting here looking at my iPad. I never sat there and thought, you know what? I really would like, I would like an iPad because it, iPad didn’t exist. Right? So, so for you, I would think the challenge in like our lunch and meeting with me, it’s like Greg thinks what he, he knows what software he needs. Greg has no idea. How does Darrin create a vision that Greg hasn’t even thought about?

 

DARRIN:

Right. So we, we see that as a partnership that we have with our clients. We have created hundreds of commercial software products over 25 years. And so we’re bringing all of that perspective.

 

GREG:

Yeah.

 

DARRIN:

All of those ideas from multiple industries. So our, our portfolio is very diverse. We work in healthcare; we work in energy. We work in manufacturing. We, we work in a variety. So getting insights from all those different places, you know, connected device. We talked a little bit about that. Yeah. I don’t know if there’s a connected device for financial services. Maybe not, but you know, we’re, we’re, those are the ideas that we’re using through a partnership to help create a product that will create new and exciting value for people. Right?

 

GREG:

Yep.

 

DARRIN:

So that’s, that’s, that’s what, that’s what makes my job so fun because I get to have those conversations every day.

 

GREG:

You say fun. Like, I, I love your passion. I mean, I, I love that. I love that you run the, the, the business on values. I, I, I, I find your vision, fascinating. Your passion comes through. I mean, I’m sure it comes through on the podcast in person. It really comes through also. So thank you.

 

Thank you for being a leader. Thank you for being a leader in the industry. Thank you. In your industry, thank you for mentoring young people, as you, as you mentioned. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting to talk, hear you talk about pivoting and resilience and you’ve created a wonderful business and it sounds like there’s great years ahead. So thank you so much. I really, really do appreciate the time.

 

DARRIN:

Oh, you’re very welcome. It was an honor and it’s you know, let’s continue the conversation.

 

GREG:

Let’s do it.

 

DARRIN:

I’m I, like I said, it’s, it’s, this is a very fun conversation. I love doing that. And I’m looking forward to learning more about your business.

 

GREG:

I look forward to our conversation. Thanks, Darrin.

 

DARRIN:

Thank you, Greg.

 

GREG:

Thank you for listening to the Imagine That podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode and welcome you to reach out to Confluence Financial Partners with your questions and comments. If you’d like to hear more episodes, head over to confluencefp.com/podcasts, or find us wherever you get your podcasts.

Confluence Financial Partners — Planning an Extraordinary Retirement | Episode #24

How do you cap off a lifetime of hard work? With many people retiring healthier, heartier and wealthier than generations before us, retirement can be a chance for adventure and an opportunity to make the most of the next chapter of our lives. In this episode, host and Confluence Financial Partners CEO, Greg Weimer, introduces us two people living out an extraordinary retirement. Meet Pat and Michelle, a couple whose skillful retirement planning has given them the freedom and flexibility to follow their feeling hearts — all across the U.S. You’ll hear about their travels and adventures — and learn how they brought their dreams to life. For anyone who has ever considered following a different retirement path, don’t miss this episode.

Greg: Hello, and welcome to the Imagine That podcast. I’m your host, Greg Weimer, founder, partner, and wealth manager at Confluence Financial Partners. Each month, we’ll explore new ways to help you maximize your life and your legacy and meet some extraordinary people along the way. So if you’re looking to get more out of your life today and legacy tomorrow, let’s get started.

At Confluence Financial Partners, helping people maximize their lives and legacies is truly one of the most rewarding things we do. You know, if you think about it, to really enjoy your life, we need to figure out how to go through transitions well, and cuz we all have transitions in our lives and really navigating from one part of your one chapter of your life to another chapter of your life is really an art. And I have had the privilege of getting to know Pat and Michelle. Pat Gaunt and Michelle Bergeron have been friends of mine, we were just trying to figure out when, since the early nineties we’ve known each other and it’s been so much fun to watch these two friends go through transitions together and as a couple. So Pat, Michelle, welcome to Imagine That podcast.

Pat: Thank you for having us.

Michelle: Thanks Greg. Great to be here.

Greg: So the first time I met them, yes, I worked with, I worked with Michelle and that’s how I got to know Pat. I watched you both be road warriors and travel, not for enjoyment, right? Not for enjoyment at all. And then I’ve also watched you. We’re gonna get to like how you can really like love your retirement and think differently about it. They’ve helped me think differently about my retirement. They’ve inspired me, but, but let’s start with cuz I think the first chapter was you two were road warriors. Do you wanna just give a little color and talk about how you both traveled and how you stayed connected while you were in different states?

Michelle: You know, we actually met on an airplane on a Sunday night when I was starting my week and Pat was ending his. And so that was sort of the beginning of our relationship. We both for, oh, over 25 years pretty much full time. And we spent lots of time apart with little time together, but it was something that was a part of a lifestyle that we had chosen, that we knew would be for a finite period of time that we planned for to ultimately allow us to do what we’re doing now and that is have other interests and other things that have been filling our lives.

Greg: Do you wanna just talk a little bit about, as you are traveling into different states, how you knew it wasn’t permanent and that was important to you?

Pat: Greg, for us, it was, it was really a means to an end. We knew that when we left on Monday morning, we typically wouldn’t see each other until Friday night. And we just knew that was the lifestyle that we had chosen really, because it was a means to an end. We knew that by, you know, sacrificing other elements of our lives and, and traveling and working hard during the week that that would enable us to have successful careers. It would enable us to plan for our financial future and you know, to eventually, you know, reap the benefits of that, which is what we’re doing now. We’re very excited with the things that we’re doing now.

Greg: But that root Pat, what you just said, that root of what you just said is really important because one of the things that happen when people don’t transition well, their job becomes their identity. That does not mean— I watched you two, you two put it all on the field and worked a hundred percent. I mean, I watched it. You guys were totally committed, but, but you knew that there was something greater out there, but you still gave 100% to your careers.

Michelle: Yeah. It was, it was very exciting. It was something that we planned for. We knew that the careers that we had chosen were gonna require us to spend a lot of time doing them without a lot of extra time to do other things that many of our friends and people did, but it felt like it was worthwhile. So we planned financially so that we could be fully independent, hopefully by the age of 50. We achieved that sooner. We were very, very fortunate to then allow us to take the next step and take a look at the list of things that we had put together, of things individually and things collectively that we had always wanted to do, but never had the time for. So it was a really exciting transition to be able to venture out into some other things that we had not had the time to experience.

Greg: So Michelle, do you remember we were in a, I don’t know if you were in the room or not. We were in a room; it was Los Angeles. I won’t say the person’s last name, but his name was John and he got up in front of the group and he said, here’s why I’m retiring. And he said, he, when he travels, he sees people walking by him and they, I forget how he said it. And he said, they’re smiling and they look happy. And I just want to go figure out what they’re smiling about and what’s making them happy and I’m gonna go do that.

Michelle: I remember it well. And I think it was very inspiring. And in fact for us, we were very fortunate in our first year of retirement. We met some new folks who have now become our closest friends and they made a comment to was that really stuck and resonated. And they said that, to them, the whole idea of a fulfilled life was to follow your feeling heart. And to Pat and I, that really meant doing things that brought joy, excitement, enthusiasm, passion, and fulfillment. And it really got us thinking about what the next steps were. And so there were things that we had, as I mentioned planned to learn to do together. We learned boat and RVing and scuba diving and things just to name a few. And then it gave us chances to do things individually that were things that had been on our bucket list for a long time. And so it was an opportunity to do things that we just didn’t have time for before. And given the fact that we never know how long we’re gonna be on this earth, it seemed like we needed to take advantage of as much as we could now, while we still could.

Greg: When did you start? So if you said like this is the retirement date, this is the moment it all happens. How far back before that, did you really start to plan?

Pat: Geez, I, early on in our marriage and particularly with Michelle’s background in in fin, in the financial world really from 1991, when we got married, that was a really big part of our plan was, you know, proper management of our finances and, and saving for the future. And because neither one of us really identified ourselves that, you know, we are what our job is to us. It was, it was a means to an end, although we were passionate and we loved what we both did at the end of the day. And I’ll just speak for me, is it that wasn’t who I was in total as a person. So it was really, you know, we’re gonna make these sacrifices, we’re gonna work hard, we’re gonna travel and in our jobs, but at the end of the day, it’s, it’s really the means to the end. And so it really goes back to early on in our marriage of saving for the future. And, and that allowed us to dream big, thinking about the future that we knew that, you know, we, we had a proper financial plan and that allowed us to continue to dream. And as the years went on, we were able to dream bigger because of those those plans and, and sacrifices.

Greg: I think what you just said, that it’s interesting how many people don’t, they don’t really plan their life or, or, or they have like a dream of what they were like, like what they, they, they have a dream of what they want their life to be. They have this dream but they don’t have a plan. So I see people that can think of 30,000 feet and can dream. I see people that are pretty good at living their daily lives. I don’t see a lot of people that match their daily activities with their dream. And, and the fact that you guys started dreaming about it earlier and actually putting plans together, I think that is a huge lesson for people listening that should not be taken for granted. So, so I think that was one lesson you just said, Pat, the second one is you, you were all in on your careers, but you didn’t let it define you.

And, and whether you see it happen with executives like you guys were, or whether you see it happen with athletes, right? I mean, you become Joe from the Steelers. And then all of a sudden number 34 is no longer on your back. And now you’re just Joe and you don’t know how to behave as Joe. So it makes the transition so much harder. I’m not surprised to hear you say the things you say, because it’s allowed you guys to transition into a wonderful next chapter of your life. And I think, for people listening, those nuggets are life changing. And, and, and, and now there were some, there were some intervention and some coincidence, divine intervention, whatever, whatever you may, whatever, whatever you may wanna call it. Tell everyone about the September 11th event, tell ’em on September 11th. What happened? I think that is just beyond consequ— beyond coincidental.

Michelle: 9-11 was an extraordinary, it was just an extraordinary day in that it was an odd day that we both took a cab to the airport. Pat tending intending to go to Dallas. And I was intending to go to San Diego. We were both up in the air when the FAA downed all planes, given what was happening in New York and in other places around the country. And it turned out that we both landed in Dallas and it was a very, as you can all know, and remember, it was a very, very scary time getting off the airplane, seeing the televisions on with buildings that were blowing up. And of course, knowing that each of us had been in the air and wondering where the other was. Fortunately within an hour, we were able to find each other and get together despite phones not working and everything else.

And like many people we spent the next few days glued together. In this case, we were holed up in a hotel trying to figure out how we would get home, watching everything on television. And I believe for both of us, I can say that it was really a, an earth-shattering event that got us think even more about the important things in life and what we really wanted to do with the rest of the time we had on earth. So we had talked previously about, you know, the age of 50 was when we were planning to be financially free, but we also decided at that time that if things weren’t as fun as we had hoped they would be, or if the world was that we needed to make sure that we adapted to make our time here on earth. Exactly what we hoped it would be. And so it was it was a very sobering time and something that was, I think, very instrumental in us helping plan our next chapter.

Greg: And, and the unusual part, you guys were both living, if I remember, you both were in Atlanta, then you, you guys lived in Atlanta.

Michelle: We did.

Greg: And, and you were in a hotel in?

Michelle: Dallas.

Greg: Dallas, Dallas. Yeah. So what’s the chance of that. Like, here you go. You’re both, you’re both grounded and you’re both grounded at the same airport in Dallas with time to, you know, contemplate the importance of accelerating your dreams, which I think is just really, really interesting. The other thing about September 11th, I think about this a lot and I don’t know why. I mean, it just, it feels like to me, in some ways it was yesterday and Michelle, I think it was you that just said like you, we just don’t know how long we’re going to be, going to be on this planet. And I feel like September 11th was yesterday. And when you think about that, that was 21 years ago, roughly 21 years. And so then I look at my life and I say, okay, it’s 21 years went like that. Like, just like that. And if that’s how much longer I have to have energy and passion and live my dream, it gives you a sense of urgency. And I, I don’t think we have to be impatient, but it gives us a sense of urgency to show how, you know, everybody talks about how fast life goes, but I don’t think we hear it.

And so we don’t really embrace every minute and understand, you know, when we look back, are we gonna say like, you know what, just like you did in your career, but in your, in the next chapter of life, did I leave it all on the field? Did I really do everything I wanted to do? So, so here you are, you’re realizing you’ve planned for this your whole life. You’re deciding to go onto your next chapter of your life.

Tell us about how you transitioned from flying all over the place, business. Did you detox? Was it easy? You know, what did you do? I mean, what did you do to all of a sudden become, Hey, we think we’re gonna buy an RV and drive down the coast. Like, like that, that’s a . I mean, by the way, that’s the kind of calls you get when you’re friends with Pat and Michelle. Hey, you know what, the boat thing, we’re gonna talk about all this, but like, like the boat thing, we’re gonna not do the boat thing for a while. We think we gonna do an RV and it’s like, Hey, you know, we’re in Oregon, we’re looking at the Carolinas. You know what we think the Carolinas would be cool. So it’s just like so much fun to be your friend. So how did you transition from, you know, the business executives to, and I don’t want to, but a little bit of a free spirit like you guys are, and I love that. How’d you do that?

Pat: That, Greg, to answer your question for me, it was, it was an easy transition. I loved my career. I loved the people and the companies that I worked with, but I always dreamed about that next chapter in life. And so I had things that I was ready to jump into and devote more time and energy to, from motorcycling, to mountain biking, to fly fishing, to leisure travel, as opposed to business travel. And so to me, it was just one chapter closed, another, another opened up, and it, it allowed for more adventure, more, more travel developing new and different friendships being able to have a more balanced life in terms of the physical, mental, emotional, spiritual components, and to get those more in alignment. And so all in all, for me, it was, it was a very easy transition.

I never identified myself as the person that had a particular job title or particular job responsibility. And so it was, it was a little easier for me to, to let that go, you know, with a great deal of gratitude, but also looking forward rather than in the rear-view mirror. And, and that has served me well over the last bunch of years since. And I always say, you know, once you retire, you’re not retiring from life. You’re just retiring from, from a job. And there’s other challenges. There’s other adventures. There’s other things to learn and do and dedicate yourself to.

Greg: People look at retirement like death. I mean, it’s like, well, I gotta be all in cash when I retire. It’s like, really? You’re retiring. You’re not dying. Like you’re retiring. You don’t need to get all cash just cuz you’re going to retire. But Michelle, what was the, what was the transition like for you?

Michelle: You know, it wasn’t as easy as it was for Pat. He had retired two years prior to me, I had made a commitment at work that I would stay for a two-year assignment and two years to the day is when I retired. But it gave me, listening to Pat every day and all of the activities and things that he was doing, gave me an opportunity to really flush out more what things interested me. I found the issue was more of how to slow down because I was so used to having a schedule out four to six months, just like you, Greg, where you knew you were gonna be on what day and doing what at which time. I started to just completely book myself, which at first worked fine. So the week after I retired, I went because I was very, I’m very interested in mind, body movement modalities, and so I went for two certifications for four weeks for the beginning of my training. And then Pat and I went on what was planned as a four-week National Park tour while we were out, we realized that why did we have to come home? I, we had just put constraints on ourselves and realized we didn’t need to. So we stayed out another few weeks, but for me it was just more, more of a, of slowing down. And I think taking some of those steps by looking at some of our interests and then traveling started to allow me to be more present and slow down from the pace. So much so that, that now we wonder kind of how we did it all back then. It’s been extraordinary.

Greg: Yeah, it is. It is. There’s an addiction to busy. And it’s an ego filling thing. It’s an addiction to busy. Okay, so now you’re deciding you’re in Atlanta, you’re ready for your adventure. What do you do to decide what you’re gonna do, where you’re gonna move? What’s the first adventure?

Pat: Well, the first thing we did when we both retired is we bought a plant and we joke about that and it sounds silly, but when Michelle and I were traveling all the time, we never had plants or pets or you know, so if I wrote a book on retirement, the first chapter would be titled, Time to Buy a Plant. And so we, we laugh about that. That’s

Greg: That’s cool. That is really cool.

Pat: Because you can, you can start like, wow, now we can actually have a plant. We can actually have a pet. We can actually do some of these things that were always put on the back burner. And those that back burner then becomes the front burner and that’s what makes it so exciting. And we’ve been in Atlanta for, for 20 years, you know, we had traveled in our careers all over, I think at last count, I think Michelle is one state ahead of me. I’m at 46 states and Michelle’s at 47, if I remember that correctly, but we finally just opened our, opened ourselves up to where do we wanna go? Where, what do we wanna do? What kind of exploring do we want to do? And early in my career, I had lived in Colorado for a couple of years and loved living out west and really tried to talk to Michelle about the lifestyle of living out west.

And so we, we just decided to take a road trip and we headed west visited Sedona, Arizona, and some of the surrounding areas and fell in love with it. We ended up buying a home there. We spent two years there and that was really the first time we had given ourselves permission to live place that was not dictated by our jobs. And also knowing full well that if we’re gonna move here, it doesn’t mean we have to be here the rest of our lives. And that was such a freeing feeling for us that, you know, Hey, we, there’s something here for us to, to learn, to enjoy. There’s wonderful people to meet. Sedona is one of the most beautiful places on the planet. And but we knew that after we spent a couple of years there, if that wasn’t where we wanted to be after that, then we were gonna take that experience and those memories and we were going to give ourselves permission to look elsewhere.

And that’s really what we did. And that’s what we’ve continued to do is that as we’ve made these, these decisions in terms of getting into boating or getting into RVing or living in other parts of the country, that that’s great for now, what we make the best decision we can with, with what our interest and desires are now. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t change and, and do other things in the future. And to me, that’s been one of the most freeing things about being retired is giving yourself permission to try new and different things and to make course corrections along the way.

Greg: There’s a life lesson in there. Also. I think it’s, I think it’s a big thought, not all decisions are permanent. I just watched, like I watched college kids think about where they’re going to go off to school or high school kids thinking about where they’re gonna go off to school. And it’s so much pressure on these kids. And there could be more than one great decision. And if you, and if you go and there’s a better place for you and the, and you can change, but I think so many people look at decisions like one-and-done, can’t change it. It not only leads to potentially bad decisions, stress, it can paralyze you for making any decisions. So I think it’s just so cool that you guys are like, okay, this is a great, this is a great spot for us now, but it doesn’t mean we’re gonna be here forever, you know, and I’ve watched you guys keep doing that and it, and it’s it, I can, it, I can’t, cause I’m just not like that. I can’t imagine I can’t imagine how freeing it is. How about you Michelle? I mean, what, how did you think about it?

Michelle: Well, you remember Mark Freeman made a comment of Yogi Berra’s comment, When there’s a fork in the road, take it. No decision is permanent. And we’ve just found that you can, when you, when you veer off and just do what feels right for you at the time, there are all kinds of adventures that you can have and different people that you can meet and different experiences. And that’s what we’ve also found with the various hobbies that we’ve done, you know, as we got into boating and met all different kinds of people who have talked about all of these other places that we need to go and experience that we’ve been able to do. So, and now that we’re thinking of leaving Oregon, where we’ve been for nine years now, and we’re talking about the next spot, we have all these other places to consider. If we wanna continue boating or do we wanna go some of the places where we can RV more to, or to, you know, other states that are of interest.

Michelle: And so it’s just incredibly freeing when you just allow yourself that flexibility. And again, it was a complete turnaround from what we did in our careers, because everything was always pre-planned in terms of where you went to, where you were going to be, and everything was always scheduled. And to now have the flexibility to wake up and say, Hey, what do you feel like doing today? Or I really like this place that we’re visiting, just like we recently did, we set out for what we thought was gonna be a four to six, six-week trip, and we’ve been gone for over four months. We just got home. I mean, it was really exciting. So it’s, it’s been great. And it’s been a learning process. Again, for me, who was so used to being scheduled for my entire career, but it’s been a blast.

Greg: So, so you, you were gone for four months and you took your RV, right?

Michelle: Yep.

Greg: And how long did you, how, when did you buy the

Pat: RV? Well, we bought this RV in October of last year and you know, with, with all the crazy, with all the craziness that’s, that’s been going on.

Greg: So I love that. Wait for, for, cuz I don’t know when the, I don’t know when this will air, like they were gone for four months in an RV and they’ve only owned the RV for like six months. Is that about right?

Pat: Yeah, that’s it.

Michelle: Yep.

Greg: That’s, that’s the part that like most people, you say that like casually, most people are like, wait, wait, wait, what? They’re gone for four months. Like they must do that every year. No, that’s just this adventure. I, I remember— and by the way, Michelle quick on, on Mark Freeman, this is another life lesson, Mark Freeman, Michelle and I had the privilege of working with him and he was such a smart guy and a great presenter. And, and remember he said the biggest obstacle to a good investment is the expectation of a perfect one. And you can change that with everything, right? Let’s go back to decisions. The biggest obstacle to a good decision is the expectation of a perfect one. And so like, you’re saying, okay, let’s do the RV, right. It it’s a good decision. It may not be perfect forever, but we’re going to enjoy it for the last four months.

Pat: That’s absolutely right. And, and once Michelle and I stopped listening to our self-imposed limitations is when we really started to experience more joy more fulfillment because you know, you just, you, you, you lead with your heart in, in these kinds of decisions and you know, what’s going to, what’s gonna give us the greatest joy. What’s gonna give us the greatest fulfillment and you lead with your heart and if it feels good in your heart, then you know, it’s the right thing to do at that moment in time. Doesn’t mean you can’t change your mind down the road. It doesn’t mean you can’t, you know, take that life experience and what you learned from it and apply that elsewhere. And, and that has been one of the greatest things is just pushing that those self-imposed limitations aside and saying, Hey, let’s, let’s do this. Let’s have fun.

You know, we bought our RV last October and with the craziness that’s been going on in the world the last couple of years and travel restrictions and we have two wonderful, beautiful dogs that we love to have with us all the time. And it was a great way to, to get back on the road from a leisure point of view and to experience new places and new people and to kind of bring our house with us. And we set out on a four to six month, or four-to-six-week trip and we were gone 130 days and , and we, we got home a couple days ago. And it’s like, we couldn’t believe we were gone that long, but it was a lot of time that was just filled with joy and adventure and meeting new people and giving ourselves permission just to, to follow our feeling heart as far as what felt good for us at that moment in time.

Greg: I just wanna add some color to this. Cause I’ve also watched you, you guys, as you’re going through your adventure, you’re incredibly logical. Like, I’ll give you an example. Like what I remember with, with you guys have the boat and then you have the house and you’re saying, okay, like, we’re looking at how much we’re enjoying the boat. We’re looking how much, what the resources the boat takes. We’re looking how much, how many resources, the, you know, what the resources you allocate towards the house. And I remember you saying, like, it doesn’t feel like we should have this house. And, and, and maybe we should make a change with a house. And, and so it’s, it’s making the decision. You’re free to make the decision, but it, but it doesn’t mean you don’t, you aren’t always learning from the experience and then maybe navigating and making it a little bit better.

And that, and I think that’s what’s unique that you’re always just trying to figure out, you know, how do you maximize your enjoyment? So, you know what, I, think’s fun. I remember the conversation and this is probably you guys like really were, you know, loving adventures. I was in an airport. I was in Naples. I was talking to Michelle. And, and I remember Michelle, I dunno if you remember this conversation, but you’re like, Hey, we’re thinking about a boat. And remember, and I’m like, you’re thinking about a boat. So tell me about the boat. And, and it was just like, it was, it wasn’t, some people buy a boat. You weren’t — this was about a lifestyle. This was, and, and, and tell ’em about how you thought about, tell our listeners how you thought about why you did that in that part of your life. And what was that about? How long did you do that, three years? Is that about right?

Michelle: We actually, actually started boating on a lake when we moved to Atlanta. Pat and I were both there for our careers and it wouldn’t have been a place that we would’ve really chosen to live. And so we were trying to find something that in the small amount of time that we had together, that we could learn together, that we could enjoy. And so we started boating on Lake Lanier with smaller, well, maybe it wasn’t such a small boat because we started sleeping on it and learned how to live in some small quarters. And we did that for a number of years. And then when we retired and left Atlanta, we thought our boating days were done. And so we bought an RV, we went and traveled places. And then we decided that that wasn’t really what we wanted to do. So we sold the RV and we were looking for the next adventure.

And we went to Seattle because we now had the free time available to us. And a friend had said that there was a great concert that we should go see for Kenny Chesney. And so we drove you know, a day’s drive to Seattle to see the concert. And we just decided to stay a few extra days. In staying a few extra days, we started seeing all the marinas with these really big boats. And we started to question where these boats could really go. So we started stopping in and talking to people and realized that we could go all the way to BC. And ultimately, we could go all the way to Alaska if we chose. And that seemed really exciting to us. So we started researching and talking to you about finances and gee, if we do this then and what, just how exciting that could be. And so it has been an extraordinary time for us. We have had an absolute blast with the boat. Had it not been for things happening with COVID and everything else that shut a lot of things down for us, we would probably still be doing it. But then at the same time, it’s been really fun having swapped out and now doing the RV. And who knows we may boat again, we would love to, and we’re looking at a way to possibly do both. So we’ll, we’ll see what happens next,

Greg: By the way, for, for folks listening also, and this isn’t a commercial, this is a plea to maximize your life. Your financial plan should be organized around these adventures. So, so I think so many people have this flat line idea of I’m gonna save my I’m gonna retire. I’m gonna make X. X will. I’m gonna, I’m gonna take X outta my portfolio. X will never change. And it, you know, whatever, and I’m gonna die at like 94.2 years, whatever that is. And, and that’s just not life. It should be way, that’s just a calculator. You don’t need a financial advisor to do that. What you really should be thinking about is, okay, so wait a minute, if from 60 to 78, I’m gonna really go, I’m gonna really have more adventures probably than 78 to 88. You, you should think about that in your plan and you should allocate differently and we don’t need to go deep into it.

But I would just say to people that— make sure the exciting thing of your portfolio, and by the way, the exciting thing for us is helping your portfolio support your adventures. And so if you don’t have adventures in your portfolio, I’d say you’re missing something. If you and your family like to go to Hilton Head for every year. And that, and that’s really special to you, I would ask why you’re only going one time. Let’s make sure that your financial plan really supports the adventure of your life. So you can maximize your life and legacy here. Here’s one of the things that I’m telling you, I know I couldn’t do, I don’t know how many people could. Tell, and I know the website, I think you said it doesn’t even exist anymore. Tell people about how you thought about the, you got on the website and how you picked one of the locations where you actually moved to.

Pat: Back in 2012. We had been in Sedona for a couple of years and really enjoyed our time there, but we were ready for some more adventure. We had started to put down roots there, but then we realized that perhaps that wasn’t the best place, long term for us. The summer, the weather in the summer was, was a little too extreme for us. So Michelle had found this great website and where you could go online, and we did this independent of each other, and you could answer a series of questions. And I think there were like 20 different questions. You could answer about your interest in life. What, you know, if you like the outdoors, what kind of weather do you like? What kind of travel do you like? What, you know, all kinds of lifestyle questions.

And Michelle and I went online and did that independent of each other, and we printed out our results. And then we sat down and we pulled out a map of the United States, and I’ll never forget this. Michelle had a pink highlighter and she, on the map, highlighted every area, every town on this map that had come out from this survey that was recommended from the survey. And as, as fortune would have it, I would say probably 70%, probably 70% of the areas, we had had both come out on our survey results, which made it a lot easier. And then from there we got in the car and we hit the road and where we decided to visit several of these areas along the way. And all of them were on the Western part of the United States. We ended up finding Bend, Oregon, and that’s, we fell in love with it.

And I, we didn’t make it to the rest of our stops on the map. We just fell in love with Bend, Oregon. And, and then that’s how we ended up in Sisters, right outside of Bend. But it was really, it was just, we looked at it as another adventure that, we love Sedona, but Hey, there’s more out there for us to experience. Life’s too short. Let’s get out and experience some other areas. And we’ve been here almost 10 years now in Sisters, Oregon. It’s been just a wonderful place to live. We’ve had some really wonderful adventures and great memories here, but we also started reconsidering, looking back on our lives, what have been the best memories, the most significant memories of our lives. And we found that most of those memories really centered around adventure and trying new things, going different places new hobbies. And so now we’re, we’re once again, kind of reassessing, you know, do we need to have a big home base in Sisters, Oregon, or can we downsize this physical component of our lives and spend more time enjoying adventure and travel while we’re physically able to do it. So that’s kind of where we’re headed right now. We don’t know where it’ll take us, but we’re just gonna, we’re kind of following our feeling heart as we’re embracing this, this new chapter.

Greg: I’m encouraged by this. I think it, I think it it’s inspiring because so many of us are hesitant and I may even use the word fearful of trying new things. And so we all wish we went and, you know, they talk about in your death, people talk about they, they, they regret things they, they, they should have done not the things they’ve done. They wish they would’ve done more. Lessons learned. And how, how long have you guys been, been retired again? It’s been how many years?

Pat: I retired in ninet— in 2007.

Greg: And, and Michelle, when were you?

Michelle: Two years later.

Greg: If you guys could give lessons learned, you know, folks listening, you guys have had great adventures. What are a couple bullet points that you would encourage people to really think about as they plan their adventures?

Pat: Well, for me, the older I get, the more precious time becomes certainly, and in time we don’t know individually how much time we all have left here in this physical form and my advice or my thoughts would be to enjoy every day, embrace every day, embrace adventure, embrace change, embrace new things, look back on your life and, and pursue those things that give you the greatest joy, the greatest pleasure. Certainly not suggesting that the decisions that we have made in terms of travel and places we lived is the right path for, for anyone else. But for us, that’s what fits, that’s what works. But don’t impose limitations on your views, on your life, on your, on your decisions, to experience life in your own personal way, whatever that may be.

Michelle: And for me, I would say, find what it is that inspires you aside from your career. What other things really fill you with joy and love. And, and for us, it’s being together and having our dogs with us and having adventure, but everybody’s got other things that are exciting and that fill their heart. And to me, it’s do those things. Now. We don’t know how much time we have. And so live every day as if it’s your last and think about the, the adventures, the fulfillment, the excitement that you can have, and the enthusiasm of trying something new, you know, sometimes trying something new is a bit scary, but the scariness always comes up with much better, at least in, in our opinion, with, with wider views of things. Bigger experiences. A whole lot more fun. And we’re, we’re just loving it. That’s what I would say.

Greg: So what are the, some of the things you think about when you make these decisions?

Pat: Well, I can say that as, as we made these, these life decisions that, you know, certainly the financial component is a big part of, of many of these decisions in terms of where you’re gonna live and what hobbies you’re gonna enjoy. And, you know, our process has been to follow our feeling heart, but then we also have to, you know, make wise financial decisions. And we haven’t made any of these large decisions, where, where we live, or, you know, a boat or an RV or whatever, without looking at our financial plan and can that accommodate our, our interests and desires moving forward.

Michelle: I would say given my financial background, I’m always the one thinking, wait a minute, can we afford this? I love Pat’s comment that he says often is, which is dream big, and let’s just throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. And so, you know, we can kind of come up with these great ideas and thoughts and ways to have enjoyment and spend our life and do something really big. But then we have the ability to do a back check, to see whether or not they’re really is a potential to do so, still safely allowing us to have the comfortable retirement.

Greg: You guys are inspiring. Pat, Michelle, we are honored to have a front row seat to watch your adventures.

We appreciate the friendship and you are, you are truly inspiring. I have a couple notes and I’m just gonna do bullet points that, that that I heard you say: one, career. Have balance, have hobbies. It’ll make you better. Don’t let it define you. Two, have a life plan. Think about what you want your life to really be and plan. Decisions — now some are, but many are not permanent. So just enjoy that it could be a good decision. It doesn’t need to be a perfect decision, but it may just be a great decision for that moment. Four. I know we hear it, let’s listen into it. Life is short. Life is short. Let’s challenge each other to maximize our lives because it’s short. We use the example of September 11th. Unfortunately it goes quickly. And then the last thing, Michelle, is one of the last things you just said, and that is try something new. At the end of this podcast, the thing we could do is has everybody just try something new that you’re really going to enjoy. We would all have more enriched lives. So Pat, Michelle, thank you so much for the conversation today. I think we will all have a little bit more enjoyment in our lives because of it.

Thank you for listening to the Imagine That podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode and welcome you to reach out to Confluence Financial Partners with your questions and comments. If you’d like to hear more episodes, head over to confluencefp.com/podcasts, or find us wherever you get your podcasts.

Confluence Financial Partners — Broglie Box: A Conversation About Mental Health | Episode #23

Greg: Hello, and welcome to the, Imagine That podcast. I’m your host, Greg Weimer, founder partner, and wealth manager at Confluence Financial Partners. Each month, we’ll explore new ways to help you maximize your life and your legacy and meet some extraordinary people along the way. So if you’re looking to get more out of your life today and legacy tomorrow, let’s get started. Let’s make a difference. I’m here with Julia Broglie and this is this is fun for me. Interesting. And hopefully rewarding for a lot of people listening. I’ve known Julia since, we were just talking, since, but right, right. When she was going to be a freshman in high school at Peters Township. And so this I’m looking forward to, I’m looking forward to this podcast, please listen.

And, and I mean, what I’m about to say, everyone listening, let’s make a difference together. There’s a problem out there.

It needs our attention. And forward this to other people and let’s spread the word. Let’s create a positive virus and let’s make a difference. I’m gonna share with you a statistic. And if this doesn’t give you chills, I, I don’t even want to tell you, but, but here it is, suicide is the second leading cause of death for people ages, listen to the first age, leading cause of death for people ages 10 to 34. And the number one reason for that is mental health. And my guess, Julia Broglie is working hard to bend the curve on that. And we all need to band together, whether it’s about the stigma, it’s about the treatment, it’s about the reimbursement and it all

starts with a conversation. So today we’re gonna start with my friend, Julia, and I know she thinks of me as Mr. Weimer. What’s my name?

Julia: Hi, Greg.

Greg: Oh, we did it. Yes. So small steps. So Julia, I hate to start so broad. I wish I could give you a, a, a more specific question, but I really want everybody to, to hear big question. Tell everybody your story.

Julia: Sure. How long is this podcast? No, I’m just kidding. I’ll keep it. I’ll keep it brief for the first question, but yeah, first of all, thank you so much for having me it’s conversations like this, very open, vulnerable conversations, real conversations that really drive you know, those statistics to become better. So I appreciate being here and having this conversation. My story, my mental health story really starts around the time that you and I first met, ironically. And when you met me, you probably saw a smiling face and someone that was super with sports and good grades and little did you know that I was actually dealing with a lot of what’s now been diagnosed as depression and anxiety since that young age. And I just struggled with these things in silence, because I was really embarrassed about them. I thought it was a personal weakness.

I thought it was something that I had to deal with on my own. And unfortunately that pattern continued through high school and college and even into my career after college, but what really changed my life? It was that my brother who was 18 months older than me, he also was struggling with the same things. And unfortunately at age 24 in April of 2014, Justin died by suicide. And that experience flipped my world upside down. It opened my eyes to the fact that I like to say it woke me up to the realization that I was most likely on the same path as he was, if I didn’t get some real help for myself. And then because my family was so open about his suicide and I started talking more openly about my own mental health challenges. What I found is that people were coming out of the woodwork, friends, family, like coworkers that were struggling, either struggling themselves too, or they knew someone that was. And so what we found is just, it’s so common for people to, to have these struggles. So that’s why I’ve dedicated my life’s work to helping people find the tools and the resources that I know are out there to help them help themselves.

Greg: I’ll tell you, there’s so much in there and it’s even hard to respond to, to be honest with you. But, and I wish we’d have done this on a video because I think people have this stigma of what mental health looks like, and it is just wrong. And you used the term struggling in silence during high school. You were probably at our house so many times and you’re right. You were the all-A student that came in and very active and, you know, and, and there was just a lot going on. And, and, and unfortunately that’s true of so many people. It’s so widespread. I, I was talking to a friend and he was talking about a high school in Pittsburgh. And he said, they, they polled the students. Two thirds of the students thought about suicide at some point. And, and I, I just couldn’t even believe that. And by the way, I remember where I was when I found out that your brother, boy, it was so unique back then. It was a, it was rare. And it, it, it is unfortunate how often we hear about that today. Unfortunately we hear about it way too often. So what could we have done? What should we have looked for when Julia was coming into our house and how could we have helped? And what should we have said back then?

Julia: Well, I think, you know what you said, first of all, about it being a shock to everybody with my brother, it, it was a shock to us that like, it was a shock to the community, I think because like, hi, you know, like me, he also on the outside, it seemed like he was thriving in life. And, you know, so I always like to say that depression and suicidal ideation doesn’t discriminate. So you could seemingly have it all in the world, but you might be affected by these things. And I think, you know, and the statistic also is that every 40 seconds, someone in the world dies by suicide. So although, you know, you think, oh, this could never happen to me or anyone that I know, the reality is that on that statistic, every single person will, will be affected by this.

Unfortunately, unless we do something about it.

But I think the first step, to answer your later question about ‘what could you have looked for?’ is I, because of stigma, because I thought no one else is going through this, except for me. So I need to just suck it up and I need to just deal with it on my own. And I should be embarrassed about it because I thought no one else was going through it. So if those students were polled at, at your friend’s high school, and there are so many students that were feeling the same way, I think just opening up the conversation about mental health. And it’s like, there’s this graphic that shows two people struggling with the same thing, but they’re both silent about it. But if, if somebody mentioned, oh, I’m struggling about I’m struggling with this. Then the other person is more likely to start talking about it.

And those people are both more likely to get help faster. So I think just, you know, for any like parents out there, you think, oh, this could never be my kid, but just opening up the conversation. And the reality of, Hey, one in five people will be affected by a mental health challenge. And even if you’re never diagnosed with a mental illness or a mental health condition, there are going to be curve balls in everyone’s life and different stressful situations and where your mental health is challenged and your, your state of mind is challenged.

And so just having those conversations, I think will encourage those that are struggling to be more comfortable to speak up and ask for help

Greg: The picture of you having like two people. And they’re struggling with the same thing. I used to have a, a large group of folks that, that would work for me some capacity, and I would learn what’s going on in their lives. And I just thought, now it obviously is very confidential, but I actually thought like, wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could put at one table to dinner, everybody that someone in their family committed suicide, another table, everyone that’s dealing with, because, because it wasn’t, it’s not unique, unfortunately. And so so the first thing is what you’re saying is, let’s talk about it. Because like you, the more I’ve been talking about this a lot, the more you talk about it, the more someone’s like, you know what, my son, my daughter, my, my wife, you, you shouldn’t suffer in silence anymore. Let’s talk about it. That’s the first step. Fair.

Julia: Totally agree.

Greg: So that’s big, right? You just talk, you open up the conversation and you eliminate this stigma.

Julia: Yeah. I mean, I remember people in, in our circle after my brother died asking us if people ask us what happened, what do you want us to say? And my parents and I were like, what? Like Justin, my brother had a mental illness and he had his brain had an illness that convinced him that the world would be better off without him.

Greg: Wait, say that right there. Cuz I think you said that to me last week. And first of all, I couldn’t agree more. Like people don’t say that when someone has diabetes or a heart attack and I look at this as like, it’s unfortunate. It was, it was a brain attack. Yeah. Right? So like it’s, it’s a mental, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a mental illness. It’s a, he has a, he has a illness that, by the way, hope is on the way. I promise you hope is on the way for, for this illness.

Julia: People that, that have these suicidal ideations, they feel backed into a corner. They feel like they have no other option.

Greg: Well, you said that to me last week, you said, and, and, and you know, as the sister of, I know you were very, very close with Justin, they convince themself that the, the current state is the permanent state and the world and their loved ones would be better off without them.

Julia: They truly feel like a burden and they feel like they feel like there’s, there’s no other option. They’re backed into a corner when in reality, that is not the case at all. And if I will say, as someone who’s also experienced suicidal ideation that you just feel in the state of hopelessness. And I think that if anyone out there that’s, that’s listening. That feels that way. And I mean, it’s not that you want to die, it’s that you literally just want the mental pain to stop. And you feel like you don’t have a resource to go to. And especially, like eight years ago, when my brother died, it was very stigmatized. And now I think people, you know, are a little bit more open, but I can say with absolute certainty from all the research I’ve done in the last eight years, that suicide is 100 percent preventable.

And it is possible to go feeling like the lowest of the low to feeling like yourself again. And I’m living proof of that because I went from having suicidal ideation all through college, losing my brother to suicide, not knowing how I was ever, ever going to bounce back from that. And you find, I hate to use the word new normal, because with COVID, it’s kind of, you know, become this catchphrase or whatnot, but you, you find, you do find this new normal and you, with the right help and the right professional resources, you can feel like yourself again.

Greg: So Julia, if you could talk right now to someone listening and just with the amount of people that listen, someone is having suicidal thoughts. If you could say one thing to them, or if you could talk to them, what would that be?

Julia: So for me, I think I would tell them that it’s time to unsilence your pain. And there are several reasons for that. One is your pain matters simply because you do and by unsilencing your pain, you have the opportunity to feel like yourself again. And the people around you truly do care about you and they want you to be alive. And I think just reaching out to one person as scary as it might be, you would be surprised at the reaction that you would receive in a positive way. If you tell someone how you’re feeling, your network, your, your community, they’re going to respond, and they’re gonna try to help you. And if you feel like there’s no one in your community that you feel comfortable talking to, please reach out to me and I will get the help that you need.

Greg: Cause Julia, how long ago, if you, if I could be so personal, how long ago has it been that you’ve had those thoughts?

Julia: So the first time I had suicidal thoughts was definitely in high school. When it got really bad for me, it was my senior year of college. And I, only a couple people knew, my friend would, one of my friends would actually like break into my house to make sure I was okay. And I definitely had, after my brother died, it was hard to find hope again. But luckily I had, I immediately got professional help and so through therapy and medication and through my healing journey found all these other tools to help me through the grieving process. So it’s, it’s been, it’s been some time since I’ve had really dark thoughts like that, but I like to say that I’m constantly in recovery. It’s not like when you have, when you’re diagnosed with something like depression or anxiety, it’s not like it, it can just go away immediately. And sometimes it comes back. I still struggle with these things sometimes. But I I’ve built these tools that I have in my toolbox. I like to say to help me so that those periods of time aren’t as intense. And they, they get a little bit shorter. You know, like when I was struggling in college, I remember like six months of my life feeling really, really down. And now when I have these phases of depression, it might last maybe two weeks, which isn’t bad comparatively.

Greg: And now she’s dancing on Instagram, ready to be ready to be married soon. So

Julia: Yes, I’m getting married in like three, three and a half weeks.

Greg: So think about, yeah. So like when you’re in that dark, dark spot, you go from and, and listen, we’re all on a cycle, right. So it’s, it’s not straight up, but you have certainly done a lot of work to cope with your mental health. What are some of the things you’ve done? So I know you have some things you do to, to build some, some resilience in your life. What are those things?

Julia: Resilience, mental resilience is one of those things that you can work on every single day. And I like to say like, don’t wait. And for people, I like to say, don’t wait until a crisis happened. Like I did it to start building mental resilience—

Greg: Because people say, I feel okay now.

Julia: Yeah. But that’s when that’s when you should be working on it.

Greg: So let’s do that again, because people say, I feel okay right now. And so then, right? They stop the good habits.

Julia: Yep. That’s exactly when you should be working on it, because then you’re gonna, you get into this practice. It’s just like anything, you know, when you go to the gym, you don’t wait until your arm is broken and, and weak to start lifting weights. And when you do start lifting weights, you don’t lift the heaviest weight right off the bat. So just like your physical health, we should be treating mental health in the same way. Just like you go to your dentist every six months for cleaning, what is that for? That’s preventative. You don’t wait until you have the really, really awful thing to go to the dentist or hopefully you don’t. So basically when I, when my brother died and I started this healing journey for myself, what I, I was really curious. And I think it’s the engineer in me to like dive into the research.

And so I actually interview and talk to a bunch of mental health professionals and ask them, what are you recommending for people outside of therapy to help build their mental resilience? And then I also spoke to people who were resilient themselves and they’d gone through things and they’d come out on the other side. And what I found is that there were six reoccurring themes, and those are mindfulness, gratitude, relaxation, sleep, nutrition, and fitness. And when people were incorporating either some or all of those six themes into their either daily or weekly routine, they were more likely to be okay. When things, when life threw the, the curve balls as it inevitably will. So the six categories that we recommend to help build mental resilience are mindfulness, gratitude, relaxation, nutrition, sleep, and fitness. And if you incorporate one or all of those six elements into your daily routine or your weekly routine, you’re more likely to build mental resilience over time.

For example, mindfulness has been one that I really, significantly helped me, especially with my anxiety and the definition that I like the most of mindfulness that I think helps understand, people understand it the most, is to be mindful, you are becoming more reflective than reactive. So one simple tool I can give people for mindfulness is to fact check your thoughts. So they say that you have over 6,000 thoughts a day, and if you believed every single one of them, that would be very confusing. So for me personally, with my anxiety disorder, I was having really negative thoughts over and over and over again. And I felt like I was spinning out of control and I had no control over them.

Greg: Do you mean like worst case scenario thoughts? Is that what you mean?

Julia: Yeah. Worst case scenario thoughts, also telling me I wasn’t good enough, telling me I never deserved any help. My situation wasn’t bad enough, that I was so weak. I wasn’t smart enough, you know, all, all over and over again. And so, you know, like I, for, to be mindful is basically when that thought comes in, stop yourself and say, wait a minute, is this a fact, or is this something that I’ve, that maybe isn’t true? And so by just allowing yourself to pause for a second, then you can think about how you choose to react to that thought. Then it, it helps it, it basically just gives you space in between the time that you can say, like, should I believe this or not?

Greg: Because I guess if you’re telling yourself that, all day sooner or later, you do believe it. Right? And there, and, and by the way, this is, this is a very active person that is like, like, doesn’t look like any of the things she just said, it’s the antithesis of that. But, but you can still convince yourself of that. Right? So I think that I, I it’s, I would call it calling bullshit on your thoughts. Right? It’s sort, I mean, it’s sort of what it is. It’s like, but you can convince yourself that, especially at two o’clock in the morning, right. When you’re like, I don’t know why when you wake up at two o’clock, you tend to worry more, but so you, you fact check, you fact check.

Julia: Fact check your thoughts. Yeah. It’s so powerful. And even, I mean, like, even if you’re, if someone says something to you that might make you angry or might stress you out, instead of immediately reacting to it, by practicing mindfulness over time, you’ll find taking a pause and saying like, okay, how do I, how do I want to react to that situation? So it’s an internal exercise, and then you can start to ex, you can start to practice that externally as well. And it’s really super powerful.

Greg: You know, I was at, you mentioned sleep. I was at Western Psych and it is incredible facility in Pittsburgh. And it’s gonna keep getting better. Facilities in Pittsburgh are coming together to make a difference. And I think you’re gonna see Pittsburgh take a leading role. And hopefully the whole, you know, people find out more about that over time. Hopefully soon. I was trying to learn at Western Psych and I’m, I’m on a tour and I’m trying to learn about it. And I said, so tell me the research here, like what’s going on? And they said, we are finding that sleep is so powerful. And, and I’m like, sleep? Do you know what I mean? Like sleep? So talk more about that. Like, is it, is it the amount of sleep? Is it type of sleep and how do you improve your sleep?

Julia: Most people think sleep is this time that you’re not your body’s not doing anything, that you’re resting, right? Because rest is sleep. But actually sleep is the time that your body is almost, I like to say taking out the trash, so it’s restoring itself. And so that, that time that your body is you’re resting, but your body is busy at work. It’s so critical for our mental health and our physical health. I like to say everyone’s different. I mean, most doctors will probably recommend that you get on average seven hours of sleep, somewhere, you know, six to eight hours of sleep a night. But I think what’s even more important when it comes to mental health around sleep is to set a routine. So I find that if I go to bed at a different time every day, and I don’t take time to wind down before bed, so turning off electronics, like blocking out any blue light from screens, having a little nighttime routine.

So like making my tea or doing reading or journaling or something, if I just try to go straight to bed and I’m doing it at a different time every single day, and I’m not getting up at the same time every single day, I feel way off. And so we, we recommend definitely setting a routine and then deciding, you know, to prioritize your sleep and, and fit that in. And also take that time to wind down. Because if you’re waking up in the middle of the night, two o’clock in the morning worried about something, it might be because you didn’t give yourself ample enough time to wind down before you went to bed.

Greg: Yeah. Do you do anything to measure your sleep? Do, do you like the Oura ring or the WHOOP bracelet or anything like that?

Julia: I don’t have any of those tools, but I’ve heard such good things. I’ve been looking into getting an Oura ring actually.

Greg: Yeah. I’ll send you one. Done. So we’ll send you an Oura ring. I, I use an Oura ring and it’s amazing. So if you would drink a glass of wine at night, right? It puts you to sleep. If, by two o’clock, the sugar wakes you up, or pasta, like what you eat it, it really does affect your sleep. Or I go to bed at nine. So I go to bed like at nine o’clock, if it’s not, if I’m not bed at nine, o’clock like, it’s a really powerful, it’s like, we’re, we’re going out hard to 10 or something. I don’t know. But like, I go to bed at , but I go to bed at nine and, and it, it is amazing. And this ring tracks your sleep and I’m telling you when I don’t get the right sleep and my heart rate doesn’t lower, I’m, I’m not as crisp the next day. And for those people that are like, oh, I don’t need sleep. You know, I can only, I’m good with four hours, they are lying to themselves. They are, they’re running a marathon with no end. And they are not as crisp. So, so sleep. I think gratitude’s obvious, but you can’t, you can’t be stressed and be grateful at the same time. If it, like, I’ve read all the stats on that. True?

Julia: Yeah. And I think most people think, oh, well, what if I’m feeling like not grateful one day? What I like to do, I actually have, have a gratitude jar. I can actually show it to you.

Greg: Oh, I do too.

Julia: We sell them on Broglie Box. But yeah, every day, if when you are feeling super grateful, you can put something in the jar and literally watch your cup fill up. And the days where you’re feeling like I have nothing to be grateful for. Like, of course there is something, but we are anti-toxic positivity, so if there’s a day where you just don’t feel like writing anything down, go back to your jar and read what you wrote on the previous days. And it will, I promise you it will help you.

Greg: So I have a friend, he was going to, his family that were gonna write something in the gratitude box every day, and Eric, this is you. So every day they were gonna put something in the, the box and then, or in the jar, and then next year they’re gonna take it out and read it. Every day.

Julia: I love that.

Greg: Yeah. Isn’t that cool. But the, but the gratitude and you guys can watch another video we did on Wake Up to Gratitude. So of the other ones, what would you say, like have had, has had the biggest impact? Is it nutrition? Is it is it fitness? What is it?

Julia: Gosh, it’s hard to pick. I, I honestly weigh them all equally. So for like fitness, most people think, oh, I have to have this intense gym workout for me. Like getting outside and going for a walk is an absolute game changer. I don’t have to do like a 45 minute HIIT workout every day to feel the effects of fitness. It’s really just about moving your body and creating that energy for relaxation. Again, this is all unique to the person it’s like, do you actually schedule time to relax? Because as an entrepreneur, as a CEO of a company, I’m sure, you know, you can relate to this, that it’s hard with family obligations, with work obligations to actually schedule out time for yourself and what, what might be relaxing to you might not be the same for Mrs. Weimer. So sometimes, you know, you have to figure out what’s actually gonna work for you.

And so it’s just so important to take that time, time to relax and, and recharge, and then nutrition. This, this is so I, I almost feel like we should change nutrition to consumption because nutrition, it’s so important. People think you are what you eat in the, in the physical sense, but you also are what you eat in, in the emotional sense. And so there’s several studies and I can send them to you on the effects of like, when I have a lot of caffeine, what it does for my anxiety disorder or when I have a lot of sugar, what it does for my anxiety disorder, also the opposite. So like there are foods that can help you help stabilize those things. So like GABA L-theanine, tryptophan, like all those things have been proven to help with if you’re dealing with anxiety disorder. So it, it is so important. You are what you eat. So consumption from a food perspective, but also from a social media perspective, you know, like if you’re consuming all this negative content all day, it’s gonna affect you emotionally as well.

Greg: So I’m listening to you speak, and there’s so much to learn there. It’s fairly straightforward. And, and there’s a whole debate in the country right now and what we should be teaching our children in school and I’ll read it again. It is it’s the case that suicide is the second leading cause of death for people ages 10 to 34. Right.

And so, like I think about, I have two great teachers that are daughters, Morgan and Elizabeth, they’re both teachers and it’s like: teachers, you just heard Julia, let’s include some of this in your classroom. And if we can help people understand the effects of sugar and sleep and being mindful and making sure you tell your story, you tell yourself a true story and don’t, don’t create facts that are just not true. And wouldn’t it be wonderful for teachers to do that. And, and you know what? I think over time would save some lives.

Julia: Definitely.

Greg: Just with, with better, just better habits. So, Julie, you’ve done a lot more than that. You’ve also created Broglie Box. And I, I, when I first, when I first heard about it, I, I was so impressed. And you really did dedicate your life to making a difference. Do you wanna explain the benefits and what, what, what Broglie Box is and the benefits?

Julia: Sure. Yeah. So Broglie Box is a dedication to my brother. Essentially what we do is we put together mental wellness, boxes and toolkits, and all of the products, tools, and resources stem from those six pillars of mental wellness, which I already mentioned. Our hope is that it’s, the boxes, most, most people send them as a gift to someone else, but we do have a portion of people that send it to themselves. But our hope is that whoever gets this box or gets this kit, or somehow sees box, the resources we have on our website, we want people to feel empowered in their health. We want people to know that they’re not alone and to feel a sense of inner peace. So the box itself, the items are really fun. So when you’re opening it, it feels really fun to get this box of stuff to help you take care of yourself.

But they’re all, it’s all tied back to those six pillars and rooted in, in some sort of connection to taking care of your mental health. So you can either pick from all the boxes on our website, or you can actually go on and build your own and pick the items that you wanna include. And my, my favorite product, we have these magazines, they’re more like resource booklets and they have articles, visual tools app recommendations, book recommendations, all from mental health professionals. And they’re really like an all inclusive little booklet, which is really great.

Greg: The, the products in the boxes, et cetera, are good for what age? Is there an age specific or is it general?

Julia: We have some student options and the student options are really geared towards high school and college age students. And then most of the other products, although some people get them for the family. So yeah, we don’t really have anything for kids just yet. Although nothing is not, it’s not age appropriate, but we keep getting requests to, to make some boxes for kids specifically. So that might be coming down the line as well.

But other than that, you can go on, you can, from one of our pre-packed boxes or you can build your own and choose items that you want on the website.

Greg: What a great idea. So leaders, I mean, business owners, leaders, we’re gonna get a box for everyone in our company. You know, parents, your, your children are, your young adults are in college. Maybe it’s a great way to open up a conversation about where they are in their mental health. And it goes back to how Julia start Julia started with you know, their suffering in silence. So it’s not only gonna help someone, but it also could open up the conversation.

Julia: Yeah. The box, the boxes are really, I mean, they’re helpful for people that are struggling and maybe you don’t know what to say to someone, but you want to show them support, but it’s also for the people who are doing great and you just wanna send them a box of things that will actually, it’s not a box of junk. It’s, it’s a box of things that can actually help people just to take care of themselves and have fun doing it. Like the mindfulness cards, for example, you can pull a mindfulness card every day and, and learn about it. And it comes in like a beautifully packaged box. So yeah, it’s fun.

Greg: You call her Mrs. Weimer, I tend to call her Lori. But she , but, but she got some, I mean, and she loves them. So she, I think it used to, you used to do it monthly or something like that. Right?

Julia: We used to do it on subscription, a quarterly subscription. And then with the pandemic we pivoted and now we have all on-demand boxes. And so like, you know, like you said, we have a lot of companies buying boxes for their employees or their team members and that type of thing, but yeah.

Greg: Okay. And this is Greg pushing Julia to talk about Broglie Box. That’s not why she’s here, but if someone wanted to, because I just think it makes a difference and it could be a small step, but for goodness sakes, as a step, if someone wanted to order a Broglie Box or put together a Broglie Box, I should— Broglie Box, I should say — what’s the website?

Julia: It’s BroglieBox.com, B-R-O-G-L-I-E-B-O-X-dot-com.

Greg: Okay. Let me pivot to, to, to another topic, because you said that you, you went and you found help and you, and you found a therapist and I know that that’s a hard thing, right? You have to find, it’s almost like speed dating. And so like if you went to a therapist, whoever’s listening and it wasn’t the right therapist, find another therapist, but don’t assume you shouldn’t be talking to a therapist. Is that fair?

Julia: Definitely. And I can see from experience that I probably saw four therapists before I found the right one. And it’s a very fr— it can be a very frustrating process, but it’s almost like dating where not every personality is going to click with exactly who you are. So I think just keeping an open mind, another tip is most people think that you have to book a first appointment , for the first time speaking with someone, but most therapists, if you ask them to do a 30 minute free consultation type of thing, so you can get to know them a little bit more, most therapists will do that. There’s also a website called mental health match that helps you get matched to a therapist based on your preferences and your insurance. So if you know that you wanna speak to a woman between a certain age or a certain ethnicity, you can check off all those selections and they’ll help you get you matched to someone that is within your preference. And then I always say, reach out to them and ask, if you can have a 30 minute conversation before you book a first appointment.

Greg: I’m convinced there’s better days ahead. And there’s better treatments and we’re learning more every day. Our country has proven that we’re not very good at handling a problem, but the good news is I think our nation is awesome at handling a crisis. And this has risen to crisis status. And with leaders like you speaking out and showing leadership and, and removing the stigma and with the great medical community coming together, I can tell you they’re coming together in Pittsburgh. I know they’re coming together in other cities. If you feel like you’re suffering in silence, there are better days ahead. There are better days ahead.

Julia: There definitely are. And I also just wanna give one last resource. If you text the keyword HOME to 741741, you can get connected 24 hours a day, seven days a week to a crisis text counselor, and that’s available at any time. So I would recommend saving that number to your phone because even if you might not need it, you might have a friend that will, and then you’re gonna be like, what was that number again? And so just having it in your phone is really helpful.

Greg: Can you, do you mind saying it again?

Julia: Sure. It’s 741741, and you can text the keyword HOME.

Greg: And when that, and when you do that, you have 24 access to?

Julia: A crisis counselor. So you’ll get connected immediately. That’s, it’s called Crisis Text Line. And so you get, you get connected to a trained peer crisis counselor at any time of day.

Greg: So, Julie, I think it’s important because you know, one of the things, and I don’t know that it’s a cause, but it it’s certainly it could help, it could hurt. Let’s talk about the effects of social media on mental health. Let let’s do the good, and let’s be fair. Let’s do the challenges and how we can control this.

Julia: The good news about social media, at least in the mental health world, is that people have been sharing a lot of their stories and there’s has a lot of awareness happening on there where people are sharing and it’s, it’s allowed it to spread faster. There’s this virality that’s happening. When someone shares something super vulnerable and people respond because they say, I feel the same way. So that is a good thing. And you can, you can reach a lot of people really quickly, which is great about social media, the down side is the comparison. There’s always gonna be people that you feel you’re not doing enough. You should be doing this. You should look like this. You should look like that. Or you’re missing out on all your friends are hanging out or there’s this concert that they’re going to, and you’re not there. That can definitely have a negative effect on our mental health.

Greg: Yeah. So my daughter was in, one of my daughters, that was in, when she was in college you know, Instagram, everybody’s having a great time. And she was at a party with some friends and, and they were bored. It was a horrible party. And they all stood up and took like a selfie of them, like, having fun. And she was like, oh my gosh, that’s it. Like, everybody’s gonna look at that thinking they were having a great time. Yeah. Having a horrible time. But if you compare yourself to perfect on social media, that is the negative.

Right. And everybody’s had a boring Friday night. Like it’s just, that’s what life is, but it doesn’t, you don’t, you don’t take pictures of boring Saturday nights.

Julia: Yeah, no one posts the bad for the most part.

Greg: No.

Julia: You know, post the, the, the negative and the boring. And a snapshot of a night, one second in a 24 hour day.  I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s a false sense of reality, for sure. So just try to keep that in mind. Again, it comes back to that fact checking, you know, like, okay, did the, and then filters like, and face tune. I just learned about face tune and people can actually change the shape of their face and make them look skinnier and take their acne away and all this stuff. It’s like, it’s just, it’s just such a false sense of reality.

Greg: So let’s use it for the good, right. I mean, it’s here. It’s not going away. So let’s use it for the good, let’s use it as a resource. Let’s use it to be honest with each other, but just understand the risks of social media, because the amount of suicides have gone up and, and there can be a lot of reasons for that. But you do worry about the amount of face time children have right now on the screens.

Julia: Absolutely. I say like, you’re never gonna, it’s never gonna work to just take something away from people. And so for, for me, my recommendation is to just fill your feed with content that makes you feel good. Either makes you feel good or you’re learning something. So yeah, definitely, definitely fill your feed, do a feed audit. if you do wanna fill your feed with some more positive content please follow us @TheBroglieBox and we’ll be happy to brighten your day, hopefully.

Greg: Julie, I thought you were pretty special when I watched you grow up through high school, but you know, with the, the information you shared today, you’re even more special. Thank you so much for sharing.

Julia: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Greg: Thank you for listening to the “Imagine That” Podcast. We hope you enjoy this episode and welcome you to reach out to Confluence Financial Partners with your questions and comments. If you’d like to hear more episodes, head over to ConfluenceFP.com/podcasts or find us wherever you get your podcasts.

Confluence Financial Partners — The True Meaning of Legacy | Episode #22

Greg: Hello, and welcome to the Imagine That podcast. I’m your host, Greg Weimer, founder, partner, and wealth manager at Confluence Financial Partners. Each month, we’ll explore new ways to help you maximize your life and your legacy and meet some extraordinary people along the way. So if you’re looking to get more out of your life today and legacy tomorrow, let’s get started.

Today, we’re gonna talk about legacy. And before you turn this off, because if I heard legacy, what is that? Boy sounds boring. Sounds complicated. From a practical matter, I was actually looking at the dictionary this morning and looking up legacy and some of the definitions, they are boring, but at the end of the day, it’s really a simple concept. And in the, and simple concept is our parents all told us when you arrive at a place, you always wanna leave it better than the way you found it.

You always wanna leave a place better than the way you found it. And folks, listeners, please understand at the end of the day, that’s your legacy, it’s your legacy. And, you know, Confluence Financial Partners, we pride ourselves in helping people maximize their lives and maximize their legacies. I think one of the things we do well is we don’t just look at your portfolios, a bunch of zeros and commas. We look at your portfolio and say, how is this gonna support maximizing your life and maximizing your legacy? So at the end of the day, your legacy is, did you make, did you make an impact? Did you make it a better place? So in thinking about today’s conversation, I thought about three words. And if you could just think about three words as it pertains to your legacy, I think it’ll help you be the architect of your legacy and they are Plan, Live and Give.

If you want to be the architect of your legacy — Plan, Live and Give. Let me go through ’em quickly. Plan. Why is that so important? You’ve heard these numbers over and over again, and we’ve shared ’em multiple times and I’m gonna read for you, to you just so I get it exactly correct. In a study of wealthy families, the Williams Group Wealth Consultancy found that 70% of well-to-do families lose their wealth by the second generation, by the third generation, 90%. I’ll do that again. You’ve heard these numbers before. 70% of wealth is squandered in the second generation, 90% in the third. Only way around that is you need to plan. It’s not only squandered giving too much of it to the government, but unfortunately, generations are not prepared. How do you get around that? You plan through estate, we have multiple estate tax attorneys.

We use, we act as point guard. We work with them with you to make sure that your money is passed to the next generation and the generation after that, the way you expect it to be passed along. Also, number one reason that that they’re squandered by the way, is lack of communication. We also help facilitate communication with your family. You know, I’ve said over and over again, we have a family meeting at the Weimer house. So we’d love to help you have a family meeting. Do you really talk about, at your family meeting, what your priorities are? Do you really talk about — oh, one of the things we’re doing right now, which I think is really exciting, we use something called Personalysis we’re getting certified in, where we can come in and we can help your family improve communications by understanding and learning the way each family member communicates differently.

So like ours is on Sunday. So if the Weimer kids are listening, we’re gonna, we’re gonna analyze how we all communicate. Maybe try to communicate a little bit better. And this is important because not only is it squandered, I think a lot of people, they say, well, this money to hopefully leave this bequest. And they think their children — I’m telling you this happens, we see it every day — they think their children’s gonna think this is awesome, but, but they don’t. Sometimes it’s not viewed as a blessing. Sometimes it’s actually viewed as a burden. So allow us to help you. Let’s put the right people in the room. And let’s make sure that we are helping you not be that statistic and avoid that and make sure that your children and your heirs, whoever they are, look at your bequest as a blessing.

And it really is, end up being a great legacy. And by the way, that’s all about planning. It’s all about planning and, and you need to work with advisors by the way, that are thinking 50 years out or a hundred years out. Like you have to be thinking, you can’t be thinking over about an advisor like it — you know, I guess it, it goes both ways. If you work with someone too young, maybe they’re not experienced enough. You work with too old, someone too old, they may not be here for your children in 50 years. So you have to make sure that when you’re planning, you’re planning on the right team of advisors, which is why that’s the way we do it at Confluence.

The second one was live, you know, spoiler alert: life and legacy. They overlap, right? Like it’s not about money.

Like it’s not all about money. Yeah. I talked about that first because it, you know, it’s such a huge responsibility to the next generation, but, but it’s more than just money. It’s also the way you live. If you think about your grandparents, God bless their souls. If you think about them, you think about your family dinners. You think, think about having dinner on Sundays, right? You think about maybe your vacations that you took together, a lesson that they taught you. A recipe that they passed on. I mean that with my mom and dad and my Nonna and Pappy, that’s what I think about. I think about when I would paint houses with my dad. I mean, that, that’s a legacy! That, that memory’s a legacy. I think about our whole family going on vacation. That’s, that’s one of the things we realized at our family, like a big part of our legacy is spending time together. You know, great Thanksgiving, it was a while ago, I get it, but great Thanksgiving. We were, we were on vacation, and we had Thanksgiving dinner by the swimming pool in Naples. Killer legacy. And now we were spending their inheritance, but I’ll bet you, they would rather have that memory than whatever amount of money they would inherit that’s greater than that. So really thinking about your life, the way you live, is your legacy. It’s not just the bequest. It could be your career. It could be the lessons. It could be the time. That’s your legacy, the way you live.

The final thing, Give. So many people just participate in checkbook charity. I think the real legacy is the difference we can make through philanthropy. And that needs to be planned and organized for. Do you have a donor-advised fund? Oh man. Is that a good idea just to get started with your family, because then in your family meeting, you can talk about like how you want that money to be managed. Guess what? That helps your children and the next generation think about how they manage money. Cuz they’re managing this donor-advised fund. The donor-advised fund goes on in time and it makes an impact on philanthropy. It should be part of the family plan, just not only money, like there’s this, there’s this guy, Father Mike, we’ll call him. And he’s man, what the difference he’s making. He has the, and I feel like this is a positive virus going on around the, around the world right now. He has people listening to the Bible over the next year and he’s reading the Bible over the next year. And I can’t — someone in the room is nodding — I can’t believe how many people, this guy, you wanna talk about his legacy? He has America listening to the Bible. I mean, holy moly, everywhere I go, the people are talking about Father Mike.

So anyhow, he’s changing the world. So if you think about your legacy, be the architect. Let’s make an impact. You’ve saved, you’ve worked, you’ve earned all of this wealth. This wealth is not just zeros in commas. This wealth is about making a difference and leaving the place better than when you found it, leaving your family better than when you found it. And, and at the end of the day, if you just think about: let’s plan together, let’s plan, right? Let’s make sure we have a plan. Let’s communicate with our family. Two. Live. Let’s really win every day. Let’s think about how we’re living and realizing whether, you know, you are leaving a legacy. You’re leaving a legacy. It’s, you know, and so, you know, just, just think about those memories and those experiences and those lessons and your career and that’s all part of your life.

And that’s part of your legacy. And then let’s think about how we’re really giving back. And let’s think about how we’re gonna bend the curve on some charities, you know, through other podcasts. We’re very passionate here about several charities. You know, we’re, we’re all involved in a lot of charities at Confluence. One of the ones I’m passionate about, I wanna bend the curve on mental health. I think it’s the pandemic that’s not going away and we all need to get together on that. So if you think about Plan, Live and Give — at the end of the day, we’ll make an impact. And my goal today was nothing more than help you think. To think about your legacy and offer our help in helping you be the architect of your legacy every step of the way. Thanks for listening.

Thank you for listening to the Imagine That podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode and welcome you to reach out to Confluence Financial Partners with your questions and comments. If you’d like to hear more episodes, head over to ConfluenceFP.com/podcasts, or find us wherever you get your podcasts.

Confluence Financial Partners — Meet Brian Ripley | Episode #21

Greg:

A large, nationwide study has found that teaching ninth graders to maintain a growth mindset towards learning can result in higher test scores. Imagine that.

(SOURCE: Nature, 2019)

Hello, and welcome to the Imagine That podcast. I’m your host, Greg Weimer, founder, partner, and wealth

manager at Confluence Financial Partners. Each month, we’ll explore new ways to help you maximize your

life and your legacy.

This is Greg Weimer, one of the partners of Confluence Financial Partners. And we’d like to welcome everybody to the “Imagine That” podcast, the goal of this podcast is pretty simple. Allow people to think and think differently maybe. And hopefully along the way, help people find something in the podcast that’ll help you improve. And today I think we have that with an associate and good friend of mine, Brian Ripley. And I think Brian, your story, and, you know, just hearing you talk about your, how you went from Charles Schwab to some national firms to Confluence and along the way you accumulated great clients that ended up being your friends. And it, I think for people listening, it’s going to show improvement, how to be persistent and persevere. And you’ve done that. I also think it shows the importance of relationships. You and I have known each other for several years.

And over time we just got to know each other and trust each other, and we didn’t try to rush it. And there was going to be a right time for you to be part of the team. We found that and mentioning our team, just, I think people will get to see the importance of culture. And, and if you’re building a company or you want to know more about Confluence, guess what? You’re going to get a peek under the tent. I don’t know what you’re going to say by the way, but I hope it’s a positive peek under the tent. I hope.

If you think about our relationship, the reason it connected with me, do you remember the first time, like, I think I sort of asked you out on a date and said like, Hey, we should talk more.

It was oddly enough,

Brian:

4th of July.

 

Greg:

The 4th of July! It was the 4th of July. We had a mutual friend. And so Brian has ended up being not only an associate but a good friend. I’ll just give you a little bit of background about Brian. He’s been in the business for 20 years. Brian has, he has a wonderful wife. Amy. Brian has six children. And it’s just been fun watching you with your work-life balance. So I think it’d be interesting for everybody to hear. And by the way, as you’re thinking about your career, you just kept getting better and better, and you like, you had some body blows, right? So if you could take everybody through like how you started and, and, and you joined us, you know, several months ago and by the way, his clients like you have great clients. I mean, they, it was great. It was really, it was interesting how much they trust you and how quickly they followed you. Why don’t you take it from Charles Schwab, first of all why did you join Charles?

 

Brian:

I was looking for a job, but knew I love this industry. Didn’t know where to get started. And my folks had invested when I was younger. My dad would read a number of the financial publications. And I thought, well, I think I know what I want to do. So I started out at Charles Schwab, got hired. It was the end of the dot-com bubble was the last class in, first class out. Experienced what it was like to be unemployed. Sent my resume out. Was, was living in the state of Indiana with a future wife, which was became Amy. And we moved to Pittsburgh, started with one of the big wirehouses. I cold called 200— It was like what I referred to myself as the Cold Calling Cowboy, because it was 200 calls a day. It was rejection nonstop. I came home, told her like, I want to cry. She’s like, well, you’re going to do it again tomorrow.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Brian:

So, but, but no, it was a great experience.

 

Greg:

But a lot of people would have quit at that. I mean, you’re just like, that’s interesting. Cause I think some people see successful folks and they don’t, they don’t see the price you paid. Like, like that’s an important part. Right? They see Brian now he’s a very successful guy and, and they don’t realize that, Hey man, there are moments.

 

Brian:

Oh yeah. Perseverance.

 

Greg:

You want to cry. I mean that’s for real.

 

Brian:

Oh yeah.

 

Greg:

I remember when I was starting in the eighties, it was like some days I was like, oh, that was really good. Then other days I was like, what in the world am I doing? But you just keep learning. You keep trying, you keep working. And that was, that was, that was the Morgan Stanley days. Right? Is that

 

Brian:

It was, and I called my, I would cold call on tax-free municipal bonds.

 

Greg:

Me too! What year was that? Well, that was, that was,

 

Brian:

It was, well, it was 2001.

 

Greg:

Yeah. I, I used to cold call muni bonds and back then — municipal bonds — and back then, by the way, they were paying like 10%.

 

Brian:

Oh yeah.

 

Greg:

And it’s like, I have a 10% municipal bonds. I was like, I’ll wait. And people will be like, I’ll wait until it gets to 11. Oh, wait, lightweight. I will tell you real quick. So last cold call I think I ever made — then I, then I made a lot and then I hired people to do it. And then now, as you know, we, you know, it’s all referrals, but I remember making this call. And if you remember Brian, when you got to the end of your presentation and it should be like 30 to 60 seconds, at the end of the presentation, if you got the whole way through, like, it was really good. Right? And so I, I get to the end of the presentation and remember I worked for Butcher & Singer and this, this, this woman said, oh honey, that’s really nice of you to call. But my husband and I live alone, we could never eat that much meat. She stopped listening when I said Butcher. But that was, yeah, but it was different days, right? You just like really worked hard cause you really wanted to help people and find clients.

 

Brian:

Very true. But it was also to find clients that you could keep on the phone. And I hate to say this, but it became more of a game of “please let me get through my little spiel.” And it was, it was a powerful learning lesson from the standpoint of like, no one likes to take the word “no,” but it teaches you perseverance.

 

Greg:

No. So I, you, you’re, you are, you are a harder worker than I. I had a hundred paperclips on the left side of my desk. Every time I made a call, I’d move one paperclip to the right side of my desk. I wouldn’t leave until all the paperclips were on the right side. Then I get up the next morning and I’d take one by one and move it to the left side. And I just kept moving those paper clips back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. There was actually a mark on my desk. But that, that I wouldn’t go home until the paper clips got to the right side. So then you do that. So you’re doing the Morgan Stanley thing. And then then what happened?

 

Brian:

Amy and I were expecting our first and so I was somewhat terrified of quote unquote being on my own and decided to go to another firm kind of believe that all the things I was being told were going to happen, I was going to be partnered up with somebody and they were going to mentor me and take care of me. And only to find out that it was essentially the same firm without the same culture. So that was a —

 

Greg:

Big national firm, got it, I know what it is.

 

Brian:

And you know, what really rubbed me the wrong way was one day one of the, I was in the bullpen and one of the more senior folks walked by that had a corner office and said, oh yeah, well, this is basically our funnel system or our feeder system. And these people won’t be around. And that just really drove me nuts. To the point where I was like, you’re not getting any of my relationships, because to your point earlier, it is all about relationships.

 

Greg:

It is! But you got to make that like, so from municipal bond to relationship. Cause like, it was just selling municipal bonds. Now it’s about relationships and helping people maximize their lives, maximize their legacies. You know, it’s a whole different business. So unfortunately some people are still stuck, right back, back where it was wherever, 20, 30 years ago. So I wish we could just help people understand — that still exists out there. That still exists out there. And, and when you say, you know, “we’re different,” it’s so frustrating, but you have, you have a view of like how it really is different. I remember like, you know, you just have to believe in something greater than yourself. You have to believe that what we’re doing is, is, is helping, you know, it’s just helping people with a different life, helping their children?

 

And I remember when I was with my prior firm, American Funds, I used to wake up every day and I’d think — my, my, my, my mission statement was you know, I want to fundamentally change the way people think about investing their money in Western Pennsylvania, West Virginia. And if I do so appropriately, I will help people retire without worrying, become educated without limits. And like that motivated me. Like that got me going. And I talked to one of the old Southern guys that worked for American Funds at the time. And I remember I said to him, I said, Graham, what’s your mission statement? Like what’s yours? He said, “Aw Greg, mine’s sorta simple. I’m just trying to protect people from all the other bullshit that’s out there.” So, so, so I don’t know that our mission statement is protect people from all the other bullshit that’s out there.

 

Brian:

Hey, it works.

 

Greg:

But like, like, like, so why did you join? And I know I’m not looking for self, but like, I just want people to know as you get a peek under the tent, how, you know, like why, and, and, and, and if you want to say like, what you wish we would be able to do differently, Hey, we’re not, we’re not done getting great yet. So it’s okay to do that also, but you have a fresh perspective. Like what made you go from, you know, the last national firm in your career, and, you know, again, a very successful business and you decided to become part of the team of Confluence.

 

Brian:

I knew I didn’t want to be there long-term. And I was looking for a place, knowing my, that we have six kids and my youngest is three. I’m 45. And as I like to say, I’ve got another 25 years in me. I wanted to be at a place where I knew I wanted to be. Where I knew I wanted to come to work every day. And I think the biggest difference for me was I didn’t feel that joy in getting up in the morning. I felt joyful to work with my clients because, and I even hate to refer to them as clients, but work with the wonderful relationships that have been trusted me with, with so much. And the fact that I didn’t feel that same degree of support on the other side, to me, it wore on me.

 

And in many cases, I felt like I was in the boat by myself. And, you know, this is going to sound like a silly reference point. But if you’re in a boat by yourself and you’re rowing those oars and you stop one, you’re just spinning around and you’re doing circles. And I felt like I was doing circles all the time. It doesn’t mean I wasn’t doing a good job for the folks that entrusted me. It just, I didn’t feel fulfilled. I didn’t feel challenged. I didn’t feel motivated. I didn’t feel pushed. And I think, you know, one of the biggest things, and that’s why I think we’ve always hit it off is, you know, you think about a shared vision. I think you and I have a shared vision. I think for so many people that, that are here have a shared vision.

 

Greg:

Yeah. Shared like, yeah, it’s, it’s a shared belief system. And by the way, you need to, if, if you love this business or you love any business, if you’re, if you’re thinking about being in business, you better eat the business.

 

Brian:

Yeah.

 

Greg:

You better—

 

Brian:

You can’t fake it.

 

Greg:

You can’t fake it. Like, you know, some people say there’s, oh, there’s business. And then there’s personal. That’s BS. There’s just life. And it’s both the same. And so you’ve taught, you’ve done a good job of, and by the way, for people listening, it’s so about balance and balance is so misunderstood. Some people think balance is you just take off whenever you want. Or like, you know what I mean? That’s not balanced. That’s, that’s being, that’s, that’s not balanced. So but you know, you’ve done a good job of toggling and really just not working, not playing but living.

 

Brian:

Correct.

 

Greg:

So you, you know, you, you have really done a good job at that. And, you know, to be as committed as you are on the golf course, I saw you on the telethon and then, oh, by the way, this is no, but this is the balance part. Right? Right. So we are on number 16. I think we played, I played 16 holes and Brian has our caddy go get him a cart so he can get to his car so he can be back in Pittsburgh for his daughter’s Confirmation. That’s what it’s about.

 

Brian:

It is.

 

Greg:

So you, didn’t not show up to either. And you are present. Except for when you were on the phone on the golf course, which is, that’s, that’s a different issue. So—

 

Brian:

I can talk about that—

 

Greg:

Do it! Okay, go ahead, go ahead. Because this is important.

 

Brian:

Well it is. And you think about culture and one of the things that’s hard to articulate, what is a growth culture? Cause that was one thing I was really looking for, is I want to be at a place that’s going to challenge me, push me. But at the same time with the that’s always heading in the growth direction. Well there was an issue where I didn’t realize the timing of a very important securities-based loan and what was needed. Well, the client’s buying a business, needed, needed this line. And so Randy, who is, for all the folks that work at Confluence, they know all about him, but I think he’s MacGyver.

 

Greg:

Yeah. You know what yeah. He’s like MacGyver, you know, like we just have such, these people that say, and you, you, you, you can maybe comment on that. These people that say millennials don’t work real hard.

 

Brian:

No. Not here.

 

Greg:

Not here. Like if we, like we’ll text each other at nine o’clock at night. Right. And, and it’s just, it’s just how we are. But, you know, but if someone needs to be with their child in the middle of day, that’s cool too.

 

Brian:

Yes. Yes. And so while, while we were golfing and I had let them down, because I didn’t realize the timeline and, you know, back to the incredible responsibility, we all feel, well it was killing me. So we’re out there golfing. Having — supposed to be having a good time. And you know, I’ve got Randy typing in things so that they can be submitted and approved. All the while Randy’s working through the back office staff that he knows to get this done. And so what normally would have taken a couple of days was done literally in one day. And thankfully the wire went out today, which was a day ahead of when it showed up. So all because of someone showing dedication to what they want to do.

 

Greg:

And the client needed how much money?

 

Brian:

1.9 million dollars.

 

Greg:

So $1.9 million. I mean that, but, so I don’t know if he even told you this. So it was yesterday 3:52. I texted Randy: “awesome work for Brian.” He texts back: “two thumbs up, happy to help. I’m just glad RJR custodian came through.”

 

Brian:

Yep.

 

Greg:

So do you know what I mean, with that, that, that shows a growth mindset that just shows camaraderie and teamwork.

 

Brian:

Well, and I think, you know, most people, they look at a challenge and they’re like, oh my, oh, no. And that was the other thing. Thinking about the big wirehouses. No, there’s no direction of, okay, well that doesn’t work. Let’s go this other way. And that mindset is prevalent. You want to — don’t tell me no, help me come up with a solution so that I can help the folks out that have that, or have engaged me. And I think that is a big disconnect.

But back to your, your question about how that balance works, I think for me, it’s, it’s, we only have so much time on this earth. Every day matters. The goal was to get up every day and be better than we were the next day. And having six kids, that’s a tremendous responsibility. I don’t, Amy and I don’t want to be the parents that, you know, spend all of our time doing something and missing out on all those wonderful experiences. Now I will tell you a 17-year-old to a three-year-old it’s, it’s challenging right now. We’ve got two, two teenagers that I think they think I’m from Mars, nothing I can say can be helpful. I don’t know anything. So, and then you’re dealing with a three- and a five-year-old who were running around the church last night, I’m trying to corral them. And it’s like, okay, well, and everyone’s looking at us. There’s the Ripleys.

 

Greg:

So when we did at our house, we did a, we did a pool party for the associates and their families. And, and it was it was a relatively normal event. And then the Ripleys show up. It was like, bam, instant energy. It was so much fun.

And by the way, it is amazing that, notice how, like Brian just takes responsibility for, I misunderstood the process. Like it’s not really true, right. I mean, it’s like, it’s just, the process takes a little longer. There was no understanding of the brain. So, but, but you made it work. And one thing I can say about you is you are just kind, and, and you don’t, you don’t like, you’re just, you’re a good team player and you’re very, very complimentary of the staff. Well, thank you.

 

Brian:

Well, thank you. But I think the word team, I mean, in, my personal email, it’s Team Ripley, I mean, I think I’ve always associated with sports, being a great metaphor for life. And to me, we are one big team. And I think the fact that we pick each other up and you know, that to me was one part of this culture that I think you can’t, until you’re here, or you spend two years getting to know you and getting to know all the folks here, I think it’s hard to really for most people to say, okay, I can see myself there. But it was real easy here.

 

Greg:

Thank you. So let’s go back to the growth mindset, because, you know, I was, I was talking to someone recently and I said like — and it’s in a different podcast — I said, you know, what’s a trait of successful people, successful organizations. And he immediately said they have a growth mindset. And I think people talk about a fixed mindset, a growth mindset, and it can sound like it can sound like mumbo-jumbo. What do you, how do you like, like how, what are you when we talk about growth mindset and you see it work inside of here in your own life, how would you define that?

 

Brian:

I think it’s accepting the challenge. I think, you know, in Randy’s example or in Randy’s case, you know, you’re always wanting to get better. You’re not, there’s no obstacle that should prevent you from getting where you need to go. I think for me, growth would be just getting better every single day. It doesn’t have to be monumental leaps. That’s just what the mindset of every day, I’m going to do something today to be better than I was yesterday. And I think that that just compounds and keeps rolling and rolling and rolling. I think the other side of it is, you can also be somewhat discontent because you’re always trying to get better. So we talked, you and I talked about it yesterday. I mean, there’s a point where you got to smell the roses. And I think that’s one challenge that I have, is to take a, take a step back.

 

Greg:

Enjoy the journey, but understand that, you know, you got to keep getting better. And that’s where happiness comes from. It’s interesting. As I think about it, I, I, I think the best way to explain, with companies, I think you did a great job of explaining a growth mindset, but from a company perspective, you know, there’s a fixed versus a growth mindset. And I think by the way, growth is misunderstood. It’s just getting bigger and bigger, bigger — that’s BS. It’s keep getting better, better, and better. You’ll get bigger if you’re better, but, but just keep adding resources to get better and do a better job or better health. Or, and, and I’m not saying it’s, you know, you have to, like you say, get obsessed by better, but you know, you, you have to improve every day and just do a little bit better tomorrow than you did today.

 

And if you don’t, you become taxi. And that’s the example I was going to, you know, taxis had a fixed mindset. When you flew into New York and you were in LaGuardia, these people thought they had it licked. They, they waited in line. Their medallion cost a lot of money. They had no competition, it was taxi! Like taxi ran the deal. And then there was this, this group trying to get a little better called Uber. And Uber’s like, wow, if we could just change the technology, change the experience, right? Change the model. We can create something better. It could be the same with iPad. As I’m looking at my iPad, like, you know, Apple decided that this, this iPad thing could be really cool, and people would really love it.

And so a growth mindset is trying to anticipate what people need and providing it for them versus resting on your laurels because you’re some big national firm that, you know, is maybe not as nimble as they should be on behalf of the clients. And a growth mindset, I don’t know you, I challenge anyone that their happiest moments in life is when they’re improving at something. I don’t care if it’s your golf game, your health, trying to be a better chef, trying to be a better financial advisor. I promise you; you are happiest when you are trying to improve.

 

Brian:

I couldn’t agree more. I couldn’t agree more. I mean, I think there’s a comfort though in that fixed mentality, I think people become passive. They become accepting. I think, you know, especially in our business, they feel like they’ve plateaued and they’re just going to kind of ride it out. And to me, I think that’s boring. One and, and it’s not fulfilling to your point. It’s not—

 

Greg:

It’s the status. I mean, it it’s typical. It is so typical. I’m going to go play golf every day. I’m not going to get any better at whatever other aspect of my life. It’s just, that’s our industry. That’s a lot of industries and that’s unfortunate.

When you when we talk about our teams and we do work in a team environment and I don’t know, and, and not just on our teams, I think a lot of — but what makes a great team? When you say like, you know, I mean your perspective. Cause I think a lot of people say they have a team and sometimes that just means they have people on there— they don’t work hard anymore. And all the people around them do all the work. That’s sometimes what a team, you know, or like there’s great teams. And like, what do you, what do you think, just in observing, make for a great team?

 

Brian:

I know it’s going to sound boring, but a shared vision. Too many times, there might be one or two people that have an idea of where they want to go, but not everyone is bought on.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Brian:

I think to me, I think when everyone works together, everyone’s better.

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Brian:

I think the other side of what makes a great team is you got to have people that know their role in that team and that are willing to work together to accomplish the greater good. It’s not about me. It’s about “we.” I think that’s, that’s probably the most simplified way. It’s interesting. I’m reading a book right now, “Chicken Runs at Midnight” and it’s a beautiful story about a coach that his daughter died. And but I’m in the, the portion where Barry Bonds, they’re in the locker room, it’s the Pirates in their glory years that when Leland assembled this beast of a team. And the thing is, they talked about when Andy Van Slyke came in, he changed the whole dynamic. Bonds and Van Slyke didn’t get along, necessarily, but they knew that they were better together than they were separately. And I think, to me, if people all have an eye on the prize, it’s a lot easier to get people to get on board.

 

Greg:

Yeah. And the differences actually make you stronger. You could be different, you can have a different approach, but you have to have the same goal. Right? So you, you act like it’s either — I think I, I think in this firm, it’s either get better, get out. If you’re not really wanting to get a lot better and you’re not really wanting to create something special on behalf of our clients, it’s just not a great place for you. But then it’s really important, and this is really important, and understanding each other’s personalities is key. Like, like, like, like Brian is a major — in fact, we have this thing that we use called Kolbe and, and, and we had Brian do it. And then he said, do you mind if Amy does it? I’m like, no, my family did it too. Let’s do that. It’ll help you to communicate even better together. And I said, spoiler alert: Here’s what your Kolbe’s going to look like. And, and, and just right in this way,

 

Brian:

And you nailed it. But I think, you know, to the depth of why we do what we do, if there are personality characteristics that one has, and they’re going to butt heads, we want everyone— back to the question. We want things to be complementary. And if people are butting heads, it’s defeating the whole purpose of trying to create something great. And the Kolbe, to me, helped flesh out what I kind of knew, but maybe he didn’t want to admit.

 

Greg:

And we hired a great new associate to work with you.

 

Brian:

Yes.

 

Greg:

Came from Deloitte out of D.C., a great new associate, and we made sure his style was complementary to yours. So then we actually had a strong team that could serve your clients.

 

Brian:

Yeah. And Sean, we’ve worked quite well, we’ve worked exceptionally well together. I’m impressed, his stick-to-it-iveness. No, it’s been great. But I think you having weeded out, kind of, the folks that may not have meshed well with me from the beginning, I think only ensures that this team that’s being built at a young age or infancy will only get stronger and bigger and become better. And I think the foundation was strong to begin with. And I think it goes back to, just like anything in life. If you build a strong foundation, you can start to add on top of layer, upon layer, too many people rush things, or they don’t see where they’re all going. And they, they, they may be driven by different things, but here the foundation was strong in my opinion, and it continues to get stronger. Right.

 

Greg:

And I think what most people would be surprised about is, we’ve, we’ve grown a lot. I’m very fortunate to have people like you join, but the truth is we could have grown a lot quicker, and it made the very, I think, important decision to say it could have challenged our culture. So we actually, at times pulled the reins. We had one moment in our, in our history where we could have a, we could have doubled. We could have doubled like really, really fast and it felt good, sugar high. And then Jim and I looked at each other, we were at Ruth’s Chris, Ruth’s Chris, we’re at Ruth’s Chris, downtown. And we looked at each other and we didn’t really say anything. We were with someone else. We just like, it was just, we didn’t, we didn’t say anything other than we both looked at each other and we both, you know, we didn’t need to say anything. We both knew it would have been too much, too fast. And we were down to the short strokes, and it would’ve been big news, but, and by the way, this other firm is phenomenal. Just wouldn’t have been right. It’s just, it would have been too much. So you can, you can also grow too fast. Right. You have to lay that foundation.

 

Brian:

But that is I think that’s part of the reason why I was, you know, you think about the two-year courtship you were interviewing me. Just see if my culture what I, what I would be if I would be additive to the culture here. And to me, I think that’s, that’s part of the whole process to your point. People can grow for the wrong reasons.

 

Greg:

Yeah. You’re one of us. Like there, someone else could also be a strong producer like you, and they’re just not right. Doesn’t make them bad. It’s just not right for us. If you’re not like really fired up to be in this business, you don’t have a passion for the business and love your clients and, it’s just not right. It doesn’t, whatever, whatever you do, you be you. But like, it wouldn’t be good for us. And so, you know, I mean, I don’t, we just wouldn’t to do it. And, and, but you, I mean, I, and by the way, I think people would be surprised — you tell them how long we negotiated over money.

 

Brian:

Oh, it was like less than five minutes.

 

Greg:

Yeah. So it was, and, by the way, it’s way, it’s more than we wanted to pay you. So— just kidding. But he said a number and, I just knew it, it didn’t, I didn’t even matter what, because I knew, and you knew we could trust each other. And that was it. Like we shook hands. It was, I don’t, it could have been five minutes, you know, I maybe. But we were like, it’s cool.

 

Brian:

Well, actually, it was probably like a minute.

 

Greg:

I think it’s right. Cause you said like, and I said, and it was like, okay, well it’s fine, whatever, what’s the difference? And we literally shook hands, and it was like, that was it. Yeah. And I’m sure it’s in writing somewhere, but it was like, is it?

 

Brian:

Ironically, so the day before I— about joined or the day before I joined, I called Ryan and said, Hey, Ryan, I know Greg and I agreed upon this. Can I have this in writing. He’s like, oh yeah. I’m like, can I sign it before I started? He’s like, yeah, yeah, sure. And then ironically, I got it, but I didn’t sign it until 2 weeks later.

 

Greg:

Yeah. But it was that fast. And, and, you know, there were, there were a lot of other people courting you.

 

Brian:

I talked to so— in two years—

 

Greg:

And some financially, in the short run…

 

Brian:

Oh, in the short run, yeah. Everyone kept playing the financial card. As if that was the primary reason. And then what, what they clearly demonstrated, they weren’t really listening to what was most important to me.

 

Greg:

Right.

 

Brian:

And I think that was, you know, money can be dangled in front of you. And it’s like, oh, wow, well, I could do this. And then you start to think, I was like, no, no, that’s not why I’m doing this. I’m doing this, obviously, I want to do well for my family. We’re not doing this for free, but I want to do it for the right reasons. And it’s not about, like you said, growing just to grow, it’s about being in the right culture, the right fit. So that you’re because — here’s the thing. What people fail to realize by dangling the carrot: If I grow, if we grow at a rate of speed that I believe that we’re capable of growing, all those conversations are for naught, it was a short-term thing. And so when Amy and I were kind of walking through the pros and the cons, we kept coming back to two years, five years, 10 years, 20 years, Confluence is always better. And a two-year period. What I mean, that’s, that’s like a blink of an eye.

 

Greg:

Financially, we’re very, very fair with everybody. It’s not like we are lowball anything. That’s why it was a short conversation — it was just fair. And it was obvious that it was fair, but that some like, and for people that are making decisions and for young people that are trying to decide, and for that are trying to counsel their children and grandchildren, please don’t make a decision based on short-term money. People come out of college. And the difference between job A and job B is $5,000. And in the whole 10,000. 15, same number. Over the course of their careers, the experience of that first job, what they learn on that first job, the mentors they have on that first job is so much more valuable than that 15, but I’ll talk to parents and they’re like, Johnny’s offered 60 or 70. And it’s like, same number. You’re like, no, it’s $10,000.

 

Greg:

And I’m like, No! It’s like the launch of Johnny or Susie’s career.

 

Brian:

The long game.

 

Greg:

It’s hard for people. It’s hard for people to see the long game. And I remember when I was at American Funds, we were talking about the most undervalued assets. One of the portfolio managers, who is brilliant, he said I know the most undervalued asset in the entire world. I’m like, okay, this is good. I’m buying it. He said that of a long-term thinker. And I thought, that’s it. That of a long-term thinker. Because if you think long-term the amount of the decisions — if you — by the way, a book to read, I forget the guy that wrote it. I’ll think of it, but it’s called the “Infinite Game.” If you remove time from the game and you, and you’re like, realize you’re playing the long game, we, and you are building this firm for our clients, children, and grandchildren.

(“Infinite Game,” Simon Sinek, 2019)

 

Greg:

And we will be here 20 and 30 years from now. And if we do it right, the pie will be big enough that we won’t have to worry about splitting it. That’s a growth mindset. You grow the pie. So you don’t have to fight about your piece. The fixed mindset is that the total is, is fixed. And so then therefore we have to argue over whether it’s this percentage or that percentage. It’s way better to just grow the pie so you don’t have to think about those things.

 

Brian:

Most people don’t want to look at playing the long game.

 

Greg:

And you got the wrong people, and you get the wrong people.

 

Brian:

Yeah.

 

Greg:

Like if someone joins for money, they get the wrong people, right? I mean, look, look at country clubs. They’ll do this deal where they get all these people for whatever reason. And then they end up with a bunch of people that they don’t really have a shared belief system with.

 

Greg:

They just want a cheap place instead of a nice place or whatever they want. They don’t, they don’t bring like-minded people. And that is the beginning of the end.

So we use this Kolbe index to help determine what your personality is. Is it action oriented? Is it process oriented? Are you really focused on fact-finding? And everybody has some component of all four. And there’s also, do you like to work with your hands? There’s some component of all four, but you have a dominant one. And what you try to do is if someone’s really process-oriented, you move, you, you, you match them up with someone more action-oriented because the, the person could be stuck in process, not bad, but you know, someone helps them take initiative. Someone that takes initiative needs the process.

By the way. In addition to that, we’re where there’s also something called Personalysis. And a couple of us are being licensed to take Personalysis. And the reason we’re doing that one is it’s better, not for business, but it’s better for individuals. So we’re going to be that we’re going to sit down with, we’re going to go sit down with families and our family meetings, and we’re going to help families understand how each other communicates. So then it’s easier for them to talk about money, because as we all know, the number one reason money is squandered is because it is: lack of communication. So if we can help families understand how each other communicate, effectively, and then we could help them communicate in general, but more specifically about money and hopefully make sure that they don’t they don’t, they don’t fall to the statistic that, I think it’s 70% of the money’s is squandered in the second generation, 90% of the third generation. So we’re working on that also, it’s called Personalysis.

 

So as we sit in this room, Brian, this is just one more thing I think of, you know, I think sometimes the way we do things, people take for granted and we collaborate a lot. So Tuesday mornings, we, we, we have a different type of meeting in this very room where we, on our big screen, I don’t know how many inches that thing is, but it’s the whole wall. We have our other offices where we communicate and we talk and we share, we share wow. Wow ideas mean like, how did you wow a client this week? Like, what did you do really special for a client this week? And we go through some other things.

You’ve been through a lot of other firms, what I don’t know, because other people are trying to create firms also. So what is it about that meeting?

 

Brian:

It was refreshing because I came in the meeting thinking it was going to be a short 10-minute meeting and it starts off with a wow and win, and I believe there was an event that weekend and oh, it was, it was coming up. It was after the Amateur. And you talked about how great it was. And but for me, it was the collaboration. People were all vested. Everyone was on the same page. Everyone chimed in. You could tell that everyone was, it was not to sound corny, but one heartbeat. Because everyone was, everyone was into it. And to me, I’ve been through too many meetings where it’s like, oh my gosh, get me out of here. You know, this is all fluff! What are we talking about? Only to come here and be thinking, okay, everyone’s not only participating, but everyone’s excited about it. Everyone’s on board. And it was genuine. I think people, you know, whether they were called in or not, but they were present, they were looking at their camera. They weren’t distracted by something else. And if, if I hadn’t been in a group meeting in six and a half years before I left the bank and there, it was like, wow, this is what it’s like to be in the boat with other people.

 

Greg:

Yeah. And we’re glad you’re in the boat, but you just mentioned something in passing. For those of you doing group meetings on Zoom and you’re, you’re, you’re trying to get collaboration: cameras on. It’s one thing, like, I don’t know, we stumbled upon that maybe a year and a half ago, whatever it was. And we’re like, okay, if you’re like, first of all, you know, everybody’s on that meeting. So it’s not like, an optional thing. Everybody’s on the meeting and cameras on. So, you know, if you’re in another office, camera on, if you’re in your office, camera on, and then I know we’re in COVID, but we do try to encourage as many people as safe, can safely get into one room. We like to be around each other. Because I’m, I’m gonna tell you right now, this whole “we can all work for home” as effectively, is a lie. It’s, it’s, it doesn’t mean that we need to be, can’t be more flexible and we don’t let people work, you know, maybe remotely every once in a while, when it, when their life causes them to do that.

 

But the collaboration, the culture, the training, this poor, next generation, not learning from the generation from before. It’s not as good. We’ve become, we, we, we have, we embraced it. I think because people think it’s just very, very convenient. But it’s not coincidence that golf rounds are at a record high at the same time people are working from home. It can’t be a coincidence. Some of our competitors are not allowed to see their clients and be in the same room with their clients. It’s, it’s mind boggling. It’s their money. They need to see you without a mask on. If you’re vaccinated, and they’re vaccinated. I’m not a doctor, but holy moley, let’s like, right? I mean that collaboration is everything.

 

Brian:

And then throughout this transition, if I wasn’t able to come here or I wasn’t able to see Randy or you or, or Sean, I think it would have been a totally different experience.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Brian:

And the fact that as much as you can feel, someone’s, feel where they’re coming from on a Zoom in, unless you’re in the same room as.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Brian:

It takes away the spontaneity of, Hey, I need your help with this. Or instead of pinging someone, waiting for response. To me, it just, it kind of goes back to the whole thing of, you’re not able to, to build the relationships that you otherwise would build unless you’re in person.

 

Greg:

Agreed. So gosh, I don’t want this to sound self-serving, I really don’t, but I want people to understand how unique the place is and because we want to help more and more people. Right now, we have 2,100 families. We can’t wait till we can fill up the whole Civic Arena or PPG Arena with families.

 

So let me, let me just ask you this. Cause you’ve been in the business like, you know, forever. A lot’s going on the investment business and, and, and, and I know you are, you are focused on the investment world and what do you think? I don’t know, like, I am  — didn’t prepare you for this, sorry — but you know, just speak from the heart. Like, what do you think clients should know? Not about us, but like right now, what are some of the things that you think clients should be thinking about? What are the typical mistakes clients make? And if you could say like, man, if all clients would just do this, they’d be better off.

 

Brian:

So many people don’t understand what they’re trying to accomplish. I think they are investing to invest. They get caught up in the quote-unquote what, what I mean with, with social media and the preponderance of investment material, that’s pumped out daily. I think people emotionally get caught up with all the things that are pumped out. And I think that takes them off of where they’re trying to go.

 

Greg:

Like, know what you’re trying to accomplish. That, that that’s like your portfolio should support your dreams and goals and mission.

 

Brian:

Yeah.

 

Greg:

And if you don’t know your dreams and goals and missions then you haven’t had a really good conversation with your financial advisor. That’s it.

 

Brian:

Yeah.

 

Greg:

Right? I mean, what do you think of gold? I think it’s gold. Like more importantly, how does it serve my goal?

 

Brian:

Right. And, and I think that is where people, they get caught up in the narratives and, and it’s unfortunate, but as we all know, back to playing the long game, investing is the long game. But you have to have a game plan that you understand, and too many people don’t either take the time or don’t want to take the time. With that, obviously there there’s the, the regular updates on where, are we on target with our goals and all that good stuff. But I would say for those that don’t have money, I think the biggest thing would be budgeting, understanding what you make, how many people do you talk to that have no, they have no idea what they, they spend. I think, you know, you, you can get away with it if you’ve got a lot of money, but if you don’t have a lot of money, obviously that’s a challenge.

 

Greg:

Or if you have a lot of money, there’s this balance between how much of it do you want to enjoy in your life

versus how much of it do you want to leave to your heirs.

 

Brian:

Yeah.

 

Greg:

Or give to charity? But there’s — like doing nothing is a decision. So some people should be spending more money. Some people should be spending less. Some people are really like maximizing their lives with their portfolios, through, you know, experiences with their family. And at the other time, like, please, if, if, if, if you get, if we get nothing else out of this conversation with Brian Ripley, please remember put together a plan on how your children are going to inherit your wealth, so it can be received as a blessing, not a burden. You don’t want your family fighting. You don’t want your family confused. You don’t want your family feeling guilty just because you don’t want to talk about it. So if we tell you nothing else, talk about it. And we want to facilitate those conversations.

 

Brian:

I have for years brought that up and I’m still, I’m surprised with how many families or parents have not shared with their children, what’s the game plan? And I’ll bring up the topic and I’ll even mention I’ll facilitate the discussion, but there’s

 

Greg:

It’s one of my favorite meetings to do, family meetings. I love it.

 

Brian:

But there’s a resistance to it.

 

Greg:

Oh yeah. Everybody’s gonna, they’re gonna. Everybody’s gonna do it. But when you get them done, by the way, the first one is weird. Get ready for it. The first one’s a little awkward. But after that, if you do them over time, I think we’re on our third, fourth, whatever, like whatever, and our family, but they’re powerful.

 

Brian:

Oh they are.

 

Greg:

And by the way, it doesn’t only have to be about money and then, you know it, I think. Okay. Yep. Yep. Here we go. So last year we said, Okay, what charity do the Weimers want to focus on? Where do we want to bend the curve? What’s our, the Misogi goal — story for another day — what’s our Misogi goal and really, Lori and I spent time on it. And then the kids we, we said like, let’s do this. And the year before that, it was, it was more about faith.

 

And you know, and we, we have a lot of other things we talk about, but, but it’s, it’s, it doesn’t need— You bring your family to a shared belief system, just like you bring a company to a shared belief system. And it just, it just becomes more rewarding. And now all of a sudden, what you’ve worked so hard for your whole life becomes way more meaningful, because you and your family together are going to enjoy, share and donate it.

 

So we live in a world, so much of services done by an 800 number. So much of, you know, we were in a meeting and they’re like, you can now auto-enroll. You don’t even need to see a human being anymore. The whole philosophy of service to some, to some extent, great organizations, not the Ritz and stuff like that, but so much , service. And maybe some of it’s lack of people, I don’t know, but it feels like service is lacking. What, what’s your view of service? Like how do you make sure that you as a human being differentiate yourself on service?

 

Brian:

This is going to sound corny, but it’s the, the golden rule. I mean, we all want to be treated a certain way. And so I try, I strive to provide the same level of service that I’d want to receive. And when you think about the relationships that we have with, with these wonderful folks that have entrusted us, you know, the reality is, they want us to know, or they want to know, that we’re worried about this more than they are.

 

Greg:

Well, we talked about earlier, with the line of credit yesterday, for 1.9 million. And by the way, you’re, you are a professional, but you were freaking out. Like not because you were freaking out because you felt you should have, you felt 100% responsible to make sure that that individual was about to buy that business, had the $1.9 million in the account. And the fact that you were golfing at Laurel, none of that mattered. The only thing that mattered to you in the whole world at that moment was that client. And I just wish sometimes people could be able to see that. Because they think like, oh yeah, he’s sorta working on it… Sort of working on it? Like, like, like living it, breathing it and feeling it.

 

Brian:

That’s all you can do. And people, but people know that. And they, they they’ve seen enough other people in the marketplace. We all, we all know. And my belief is you’ve got to, you can’t fake that stuff. And people know, I mean, you know, when someone’s giving you the lip service or they’re not giving their all. And so I’m probably harder on myself than anyone else will be. But to me, I think it comes back to, you know, I want to know that I’m doing the best and I put a lot on my own shoulders to make sure that I’m delivering on what, what I need to do.

 

Greg:

Yeah.

 

Brian:

I mean, we’re in the investment business. It’s a great business, but let’s face it — if it’s only about the investments, what value are we adding?

 

Greg:

When someone reaches out and we say, “got it” — it’s gotta mean “got it.” And that, when we say got it, the whole team goes to work to make. I was just on the phone with, with a, with a woman from out of town in Illinois. And we’re doing some things for an estate planning. And I said, we got it. And in the last, I don’t know, hour, I’m telling you, people got it. And we’re going to get back to her with a thoroughly vetted answer that we got it. But it’s, that’s the difference.

 

Brian:

But to your point, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll just say that you know, there’s a, there’s a great amount of trust with the folks here because they got it.

 

Greg:

And they are smart.

 

Brian:

Yeah. They are.

 

Greg:

Like, like, like there there’s a group. We don’t need to — obviously, Randy, one of them. There’s a bunch, there’s a bunch of like 20 something, 30 something, 40 somethings. They’re just smart.

 

Brian:

They are, but they’re hard working. And you know, when we got together, sitting at this table with the, you know when they took, when Gregory and Randy took me through all the sophistication of the technology, I mean, because you know, people are like, well, why did you leave? Culture. Well, culture is a huge part of it, but how do you talk about that? But you know, what’s, what are the additive components underneath the hood?

 

Greg:

Yeah. And I, and if you’re in a room with Gregory and Randy and they don’t know the answer, it was a bad question. Because it’s like they do! Katie’s laughing. Like they know! Like they know! In fact, I’m like, how do they know this stuff? I mean, Jim and I will say every once in a while, it’s like, how do they know that? It’s, I don’t know. They know, like they, they just know. It’s really, it’s really remarkable. In fact, they said, how do you guys get like your, your twenty-something and thirty-somethings to work so hard? And your forty-somethings? And the truth is we don’t. They do it to each other, like they challenge each other. They, there’s just a higher standard where they really encourage each other to get better. And their, it’s not competitive because, but, but it’s just the standard and they live up to it.

Brian:

And I think you’ve also recognized that extra effort. Where I think a lot of people would want to work hard at other places or they do work hard, they don’t feel the same sense of appreciation that they do here.

 

Greg:

Gratitude.

 

Brian:

Yeah.

 

Greg:

So we’re doing, we’re doing some videos on gratitude and it’s just so powerful. It’s gratitude. We have, we have so much to be grateful for. And many of the things we have to be grateful for, we just take for granted and that’s unfortunate.

 

Brian:

It is. But you do that. You can do that with everything.

 

Greg:

Brian, We are so fortunate to have you as part of the team, I look forward to working with you for the next 25 years. After that, I can’t promise I’ll be here. But I look forward to working with you. And you’re not only a great member of the team, how you’ve acclimated to become a great friend to the organization is, is really appreciated. And your clients, and I mean this from every, from the bottom of my heart, your clients are very, very fortunate to have you. Thanks.

 

Brian:

Thank you.

 

Greg:

Thank you for listening to the Imagine That podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode and welcome you to reach out to Confluence Financial Partners with your questions and comments. If you’d like to hear more episodes, head over to ConfluenceFP.com/podcasts, or find us wherever you get your podcasts.

Confluence Financial Partners — The Power of Coaching | Episode #20

Greg:

86% of companies reported an ROI on their coaching engagements. Imagine that.

(ICF Global Coaching Study, 2020)

Greg:

Welcome to the Imagine That podcast. We have Dr. Ben Sorenson with us. Actually, he, he is a person that has really helped me. I think everyone listening is going to find Ben to be very helpful. We’re going to talk about, should you have a coach? What does coaching matter? Can you be coached up? You know, do you need a coach as you become more and more successful in life and why? And then, this may be news to you — in the second — I want to talk about those quadrants. I found them to be really, really informative. So I’d love to talk about like how we all can do a better job of connecting with each other and then just in continual improvement, the third thing would be feedback.

So anyhow, three things we’re ready to talk about today. Coaching, connecting, and feedback. And to do that, we have Ben, Dr. Ben Sorensen with us. So here’s who Ben is. He’s an executive coach, right? So he does a lot of executive coaching. He can— Here are some of the clients he worked with. T. Rowe Price, great investment firm. That’s how I met Ben. And then PepsiCo, Disney, DirectTV, MGM, Comcast, Greg Weimer, weird list. Like what the heck? Here’s, here’s his background. Ben, could you just not get enough schooling? He goes to Georgetown gets his law degree. Is that true?

Ben:

Yes.

Greg:

Master’s of Science of Strategic Intelligence from National Intelligence University. I’m going to say that again. Yep. Brian’s in the room with me. He’s looking at me, like what? Master of Science of Strategic Intelligence from the National Intelligence University. All right. That’s just really cool. Doctor of Ministry from Ambridge University, Master’s of Arts and Leadership from Duquesne. You’re a Lieutenant Commander, specializing intelligence in the Navy. Spent five years in the Pentagon. In his spare time, he’s the city commissioner of Fort Lauderdale. What the heck? What made you do all that?

Ben:

Short attention span, can’t stay focused on one thing. I don’t, I don’t know. I’m still trying to figure it out.

Greg:

I was like, I thought I knew you, but I’m reading your bio and then I’m like, what are you doing? Having dinner with me? I mean, my goodness.

Ben:

And you know, I’m learning from you all the time too, man. So it’s a, it’s a give and take.

Greg:

So what made you start doing the coaching thing? Like tell us about like, why coaching is important. What do you, what made you start?

Ben:

So thanks Greg. I mean, I’ve just always been interested in leaders and, and the basic idea of, Hey, are leaders born or are they made, is it some combination? And growing up, my parents are folks who were real involved in the community. And so I found myself around different community leaders and business leaders. And I’d see those folks when I was young and I’d say, Hey, I want to be like those folks. I want to be able to influence and help people. And so, as I was doing that and kind of grew up, I started taking courses around, how can we be better leaders? How can we not start reading a lot about being better leaders and developing and so forth. And so it just, it led to kind of this amazing kind of fortuitous event where a buddy that I grew up with and the father of a friend I grew up with, came to me and said, Hey, we’re doing executive coaching leadership training. We need help. We know you’re in law school. I was in my second year of law school at the time. And they said, would you want to help us? And I said, I’d love to, but I got to finish law school. And they said, Hey, we’ll, we’ll work around your schedule, make it work. And that was 16 years ago, Greg. And I’ve been doing it ever since.

Greg:

So, so, so to the question, are they born, or can you create a leader? Like what, like what’s the answer to that?

Ben:

Yeah, to me it’s, it’s, it’s created, I think we’re born with certain kind of traits and abilities, but the real skill and role of leaders, I think, is really developing as they grow identifying strengths. You know, Mark Twain says or said that the two most important days in our life are first, the day we’re born. And second, the day we figure out why. And so I think leaders are folks who really are able to tap into why are they, why are they here and what can they do with their gifts?

Greg:

So what are some of the traits though, of a typical leader? Like, like if someone’s listening and say I don’t know, I don’t, I don’t feel like I’m a leader. So what are some of the traits that you find that leaders have?

Ben:

So I’ll tell you, I’ll, I’ll lead with what I think is the most important. And this is a result of coaching one-on-one with folks around the world and working with organizations around the world. If you ask me, what’s the single most important quality to determine if someone’s going to be an effective leader and be able to lead people and, and grow. The single most effective and important quality is what I call having a growth mindset, a growth mindset — meaning, meaning: are you eager and willing to learn and adapt? Are you hungry and wanting to skill up as you move through life? That is a completely developed mindset. One that you don’t have to be born with, but when you look across industries, that is what most successful leaders have.

Greg:

I love that you said it. Cause we, we talked, we talked about the growth mindset all the time. And by the way, I find, I find people with growth mindset, they just, they have bigger goals, have bigger ambitions. They tend to be happier. They tend to be more optimistic. How do you teach that? Because you see some people and you’re like, man, I just want you to be the best version of yourself. But you are so limited in the way you think. How do you help someone find that growth mindset? Or is it just you’re born that way?

Ben:

Yeah, no, I think you can help uncover it for folks. And one I’m thinking of I’m coaching right now, a surgeon right now at a, at a huge hospital. And we’re, we’re just having a great time working together. And, and, and one of the pieces that we’re working on with this surgeon is helping understand, kind of, what are the aspects that you could be doing better and realizing that if you do those, if you skill up in these areas, if you adjust a little bit in these areas, it’s going to help you get to where you want to go and achieve what you want to achieve. And so by, kind of, creating that awareness, connecting that to a sense of purpose and urgency. A lot of times you awaken that, Hey, I, now I have understanding of why this matters, why it can do better on this, why it can grow and so forth. So it’s kind of connecting the dots can be so helpful.

Greg:

So I have to say, after our dinner last week, and it’s been true of our other conversations also, come in there, we both had long days, you leave with more energy than when we sat down. And it’s because, you know, the growth mindset, right? You talk about the future and listeners are probably sick of hearing me say that. I get this, I get it. But I really believe, as a human being, you absolutely have to believe that your better days are in front of you. If you believe your better — I think that comes with a growth mindset. If you believe your better days are in front of you, even if you’re on your death bed, that leads to happiness. And one of our first conversations, you took me back to childhood. I thought, this guy’s got way too much psychology stuff for me. Right? I’m like you said, like, tell me when you were a kid. Tell me about your mom and dad. Tell me about your siblings. I’m like, alright, enough of this. But I gotta tell you it really helped me connect dots. I wouldn’t have done on my own, i.e., the importance of coaching. It really helped me connect dots on why I do the things I do. So thank you for that. I’m putting reasons more on the why.

Here’s what I see happening. How do you help people through those thoughts? It’s interesting. Someone starts out in their profession, you’re working with an all-world surgeon, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods. They all have a lot of coaches. In some industries, including ours, by the way, people get to a level of comfort. They hit their thermostat, their temperature where they believe they belong. How do you help those people say, okay, there’s more out there for you in whatever aspect of your life? And really go seek and get a coach. Because so many people are like, I have obtained X. Now that I know everything. I don’t think a coach anymore. What would you say to that person? How can we shake that person up enough to say, wait a minute, I have to shock the system? Shocking the system will really get you more happiness, results, etc. What do you say to that person that believes that they’ve learned everything there is to learn?

Ben:

Where I like to start off with, one of the ways to kind of look at that is — look, we’re in football season right now. Right? So a lot of folks watching the NFL. The, an NFL team, how many players can the NFL team dress out on game day? It’s 46. They can dress out 46 players on game day. Now how many coaches does the average NFL team have? How many coaches do they have? On average 15 to 20 coaches? Oftentimes it’s upwards of 20 to 23. So top-performing organizations with the most elite athletes in the world, the Tom Bradys the, you know, Aaron Rogers, whoever your favorite kind of player is, they invest significantly in coaching. They have multitude of coaches around these top performers. Now why do these top performers have so many coaches? They have so many coaches because even the best can keep getting better. They have coaches to help them push and drive, and if the best can keep getting better, then I think you and I have an opportunity too.

Greg:

I think that’s wonderful. And when you think about, you know, the surgeon, for example, this, you know, extremely well regarded nationally and he’s hiring you as a coach. I forget, I heard, I forget. I think Tiger Woods has like four coaches.

Ben:

Exactly.

Greg:

So you know, for the people listening, coaching matters. Now that may be for you a podcast. You just have to fill your mind with brain candy, positive things, but, you know, but some of that stuff has a sugar high to it. You know, meeting with a coach on a regular basis can really foster that growth mindset, make you a better leader, and get you all that you want, and become the best version of yourself. So thank you for what you’re doing for us. Thank you for what you’re doing for our firm. We really do appreciate your coaching.

Let me go to the second part. One of the things you do as a coach is you help us connect with different people. And by the way, if you think like this is too hard to do on the podcast, I understand. But if you could give a brief overview of how you believe that people will fit into the four quadrants. Because for everybody listening, think about, okay, which one am I? Maybe you think about someone that you want to connect better with. And you say, oh I wonder which one they are. And then we can talk about the four different quadrants, because it really does help you connect with people you love.

Ben:

Absolutely. And, and let me just make one other comment on the coaching piece and to wrap that up. Is look, Greg. I think you’re spot on about the need for all of us to benefit from a coach. Even more important than a coach I would argue, is having a therapist. And I know, you know, some of us here in the word therapist and kind of think, you know, that that’s weird, that’s for people with, with problems. No, this is actually, a therapist is a coach for all of us, that all of us can benefit from it. It can help with your personal life, with your significant other and relationship. Even if it’s just, check the oil, once every couple months. You know, look up a, a local therapist in near area and you can kind of talk through how things are going from emotional level, especially right now, there’s so much going on in the world. Your mental health is paramount. Those folks can really help as well. So anyway, sorry, Greg. I just wanted to,

Greg:

I can throw a quick bullet on that because hopefully it’ll help everyone else. You helped me. When we were having dinner, I just told you one of the things I do is, I do the worst possible outcome. So I think of an event, I’m the guy that, I smell flowers, I look for the casket. I’m the worst possible outcome worrier. And I think a lot of people can relate to being the worst possible outcome worrier. And maybe it’s an Italian thing. Maybe it’s a Catholic thing, but that’s, that’s what I do. And specifically, I do it at two o’clock in the morning and that’s not healthy. And you said something to me, you said, possible, not probable. Just wanna expand on that real quick?

Ben:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. This is look, we’re all guilty to different levels of catastrophizing, of really thinking worst case scenario and getting caught up in a lot of worry and anxiety, especially with just all, all everything that’s going on. So one of the things I like to remind to myself is, is it possible or probable? In other words, when I was young, I remember I first found out that the sun is slowly expanding and at some point, the sun might envelop the earth. And so I remember spending nights up awake and be like, oh gosh, when is this going to happen? And can we make it out alive and so forth? We do a lot of that, granted with different topics. So ask yourself, as you find yourself, maybe spinning into a little bit of a downward cycle or worrying about something — is what I’m worrying about, is it possible or probable? In other words, is it possible that what you said to that coworker might be damaging to kind of how they view you and kind of your long-term friendship with them because you gave them some tough feedback? Hey, it’s possible it might damage your relationship permanently, but is it probable? Is it likely that that’s going to happen? Probably not. So how much cognitive space and time do you want to commit to spending thinking about something that’s possible, but not probable. The higher ROI is focusing on what’s probable and working on leveraging that.

Greg:

So that’s closely related to something else we talk about a lot and that is can and can’t control, right?

Ben:

Yep, exactly.

Greg:

So if you just listed, and by the way, doing this on a daily basis is a cool thing. I’ll do it sometimes in the morning, I’ll say, okay, on the left-hand side, I’ll write “list of things I can’t control.” So, the stock market, whatever those things, you know, other people behavior, or whatever, whatever those things are you list everything you can’t control. Everything on CNN and Fox. I can’t control them. By the way, focusing on things you can’t control increases your anxiety. So focusing on things you can’t control increases your anxiety and reduces your results. And then on the other side of the ledger, I do a key chart, bottom right-hand side of my daily planner. And then on the right-hand side, I say, okay, here’s the things I can control. How many clients I talk to? Do I exercise? What I eat. All of those things I can control. And by focusing on things, you can control you and increase your results and actually you reduce your anxiety. So just a way for everyone to take their pulse is to say, okay, during the day, we’ll get that assessment later. If you say, okay, what can I focus on today? What percentage of the time did I focus on things I can’t control and what percentage of the days did I spend focused on things I can control? And the more you move to the right side of the ledger “can,” the more you will be happy, less anxious, better results. Fair?

Ben:

Exactly, spot on. And here’s what the cognitive research shows. It shows that basically if you spend time thinking and finding solutions for topics that you cannot control, in other words, coming up with solutions for something that you actually can’t implement that solution, what happens cognitively is when you come up with that solution and the brain seeks to resolve, seeks to implement that solution, and you can’t because it’s out of your control the brain starts dialing back cognitive resources, long-term problem solving. So you actually might detrimentally reduce the ability to solve problems you can control by focusing on that which you cannot. Marines do a really good job of this in bootcamp. The culmination of Marine Corps bootcamp includes something called the crucible, which is the last really painful part. And they really emphasize there: focus on what you can control, focus on what’s in front of you. That’s when you’re going to get the best results.

Greg:

The other thing we talked about, what I think is important because there are a lot of people, I think type A where it’s like, we, we immediately react, right? Instead of, and we were talking about the example of, you can feel that adrenaline, but then you have to assess the situation. So I’m sure a lot of listeners, you get that adrenaline rush. Can you explain that, and a better way to manage through that? And if you just want to expand upon that, that’d be great.

Ben:

Yeah. So there’s two parts of the brain that really impact behavior, the neocortex and the limbic system. The limbic system is the more reactive, instinctual, emotional fight-or-flight based in the limbic. It’s oftentimes called the lizard brain or caveman or cave woman brain. Neocortex is more of the higher functioning, CEO, long-term thinking, strategic analysis. What Greg was mentioning there is basically a limbic response to something. So something happens, that stimuli goes into the thalamus, which is kind of at the brain stem and the thalamus distributes that information to the limbic and neocortex. We’re at a significant disadvantage if we allow a limbic response. In other words, we stay in our limbic in responding to whatever that situation may be, because what the research finds is in our limbic, we’re much less creative. We’re, we take in less data, and we’re much more reactive in the limbic.

So we want to move to the neocortex. How do you move to the neocortex? It’s by being more aware of what we’re saying to ourselves, which is called self-talk. Self-talk is what we say to ourselves. We speak about thousand words a minute consciously and unconsciously in our self-talk. And so you’ll want to be aware of the self-talk. The easiest way to be aware of it is a little acronym I created, I call it triple-A, A-A-A. First A is, be aware of what you’re saying to yourself. So something happening in the world, you’re on a phone call with a client. You’re watching your kids, whatever it might be, you start spinning, right? You’d get, self-talk going. Be aware of it. Don’t judge it. Don’t react to it. Second A is, assess it. Assess it. Assessment is two questions. One is what I’m saying to myself accurate? Is what I’m saying to myself accurate? And two, is what I’m saying to myself, going to get me to the top performing emotions of happiness, confidence, gratitude. Happiness, confidence, gratitude are the top-performing emotions from which we make the best decisions, best strategic thinking and so forth.

So ask yourself those two questions. If both of those questions are yes, I’m being accurate and whatever I’m saying to myself is going to lead to that top performing emotion of happiness, confidence, gratitude, you’re a self-talk champion. Keep doing it. If not, if either one of those questions is no, then you’ve got to go to the third A. You gotta go to adjusting your self-talk, adjust your self-talk. So that instead of saying to yourself, I can’t believe he just did this to me. That was the most, rudest most inappropriate thing he’s ever done. Fair to have that reaction. But if you stay in that self-talk space, you’re not going to move into the neocortex and the higher performing emotion. So say to yourself, something like, Hey, that was rude. I’m not sure if he’s aware of the impact of what he said and how he said that. You know, maybe at some point I should just give him a little bit of feedback, so he understands how that came across to me and some of the others, and maybe helping him improve there. That’ll help make him a stronger team member.

Greg:

That is so powerful. So first, it’s just, be aware. We’ve all had that feeling. I mean, everyone listening, it’s like, yeah, I know that feeling, right? I get that rush. Just being aware of it. I mean, I have become more aware of it in working with you. But, like, you have that feeling, right? And then the self-talk is so powerful. What did you say? Thousand words per minute?

Ben:

Exactly.

Greg:

And once you dwell on it, you multiply. So just really powerful. And it’s interesting doing those two. It really has helped the adjustment to, I don’t know, to, to have a better response. Instead of, you know, being the fire person that runs into the burning building without understanding where you’re going and being logical about it.

Ben:

Exactly. And Greg, this applies to our, you know, being a Navy Intel guy, I get an opportunity to interact and work with different communities within the within our military. And this is something that applies to special operators. They perform best, even in the midst of firefights, even the midst of really difficult times, they perform best in an emotional state of happiness, confidence, gratitude. And they’re actually weeded out. They’re actually selected based on their, in part, based on their ability to perform in the neocortex and stay out of the limbic for long periods of time.

Greg:

That’s wonderful. Thank you so much. So let’s go. If we want to connect with people, especially with technology today, we were talking about in an earlier meeting and they’re like, well, we’re going to get a do everything online. I’m like, we don’t want to do everything online. Well, we’re going to call centers. I’m like, we’re not going to be that. Like we’re not doing that. We really want to be able to connect. The ability to connect is powerful. And I worry through texting and emails that we’ve lost, to some extent, the ability to connect. So one of the tools that you’ve shown us on how you connect is to understand that we have different personalities. With that overview, do you want me to like go through an overview of the four quadrants?

Ben:

Absolutely. Yeah. So many of your many listeners might have, have gone through or heard of Myers Briggs or DISC. These are great personality models. We have one that we call our communication style model. Similar, but some, some little, little differences. So each of us is a combination of four personality styles, Analyst, Director, Friend, Expert. Analyst, Director, Friend, Expert. Each of us is a combination of all four. There’s no right or wrong, good or bad. The key piece is this: first, being aware of what is your dominant style. If you had to pick one or two of these and, and I’ll share with them, share you with you, what they are briefly. But if you had to pick one or two, what tend to be your dominant style or styles when you’re working? And I say working because some of us have different styles at home.

So we’ll focus at the moment on your work. So what’s your dominant style. The second piece to be aware of is what is the dominant style of the person in front of me? Or the person on the phone? Or the person on the, on the computer screen? And the third step, to really connect, build trust is how can I adapt? How can I adjust just a little bit to communicate in a way as the person in front of me would communicate? That is called empathy. When you look at trust, the research around trust is really fascinating and it’s, and it’s going to be very intuitive to all of you. One, what the research finds is that people start evaluating whether to trust you or not immediately, within a 10th of a second. Furthermore, that trust evaluation never stops. So our significant other, our children, our longest-term client, all those people are still evaluating whether to trust us or not, every minute of every day.

Now, hopefully most of us don’t have wild swings on the trust score, but they are evaluating us. So how can we score high on the trust for leveraging this personality profile piece? You gotta understand how do people evaluate? They evaluate you and comprise their trust score of you based on two components: one, their evaluation of your expertise is Ben knowledgeable? Does he know what he’s talking about? Does he understand the industry? Does he understand competitors? Does he understand other products and so forth? Second component is empathy. Does Ben understand what it’s like to be in my shoes? Does he understand the fears, concerns, frustrations I have? People place a far greater weight on empathy than expertise. So you got to score high on empathy. How can you score highest on empathy? By doing what I said, which is adjusting to the style in front of you. So that’s kind of how we’ve got to be now, Greg, what I can do if you want—

Greg:

By the way, Ben, just on that, because I worry a little bit about that, because the listeners, you know, it’s not manipulative, it’s just to help you, I need to get in your shoes. So I’ll drop it. But if you’re an Analyst and I’m not giving you specific information, I can’t help you make a great decision. Or if you’re a Director and I’ll throw out some words that I’m sure you’ll go through, if you’re a Director and I’m not giving you bullet points, you’re going to stop paying attention to me. So really, what it is, in our world is, you know, and with your loved ones and with, you know, in business, you just have to speak in a way that connects with the other person, put yourself in their shoes. So then you can help them make a better decision. Is that fair?

Ben:

That’s it exactly.

Greg:

It’s not manipulative.

Ben:

It’s not, and in fact, I’m going to get mushy on you, but it’s the greatest way to love, honor and respect someone. If you really want to honor and love them and respect them, you’re going to communicate in a way that makes the most sense to them. That makes it the easiest for them to understand and digest information and make decisions. And so that’s what we’re trying to do. And just a little bit of adaptation. Greg goes a very long way on this. So—

Greg:

So we, one of our core values: It’s about you. Meaning, it’s about you, it’s you, it’s about you, the client. If it’s really about you, we, it’s more important that we speak in your language, not ours.

Ben:

Exactly.

Greg:

If you’re a relationship person that wants bullet points and we’re killing you with details, we haven’t helped you. Or if you’re an engineer and we haven’t given you details, we haven’t helped you. So understanding how you want to receive the information. And oh by the way, we do this in several different ways. One, we use all those things Ben talked about. We also help families with this. So we’re learning, and Ben you may, you may have heard of Personalysis. We’re learning how to become cert— we’re becoming certified on Personalysis so that we can meet with families and help them understand how the different family members can communicate. Because one of the biggest reasons that people end up squandering money or there ends up being a missed issue with money is because there’s a lack of communication.

And if we can help people understand family members better, that will allow them to communicate better and have better results from a legacy of the family’s wealth. So it’s not only internally because we put together teams internally by this, it’s also worked with our clients is how we communicate with clients. So it just shows you the importance regardless of how you look at this. So I threw out some things like Analyst, Director, Friend. Do you want to just go through, do you want to go through the four quadrants and just like give a bullet point on who they are and like how you identify and communicate with them?

Ben:

Absolutely. Yeah. And, and I’ll give you a quick and easy ways to pick up what is the dominant style you’re dealing with. And then I’ll give you some quick tools how to adapt to them, to ultimately score high on empathy, thus winning trust. So the first style is the Analyst, good example of Analyst is someone like Bill Gates is an analyst or Spock from Star Trek. So these folks tend to speak at a slower pace than others. They also tend to be less emotional in their speech. They like a lot of information and data. They like to take time in making decisions. So how do you adapt to these folks? How do you talk their language? Very important: you slow things down. They value precision. They value the avoidance of mistakes. So you want to show that you are doing your due diligence. You want to give them the black-and-white data.

If you come to them with a couple of glossy colorful pages, they’re going to think to themselves, Hey, what’s, what’s, where’s the meat behind this thing? What’s the real deeper dive on this? It’s also very important with Analysts that you talk about risk. If you go to an Analyst and only lead with upside and you don’t talk about the possible exposure, they’re going to think to themselves, one of two things, one, Ben knows what the risk is, but he’s hiding it or two, Ben doesn’t know what the risk is. He doesn’t know what the downside is. So it’s very important for us to share what is the exposure. And in fact, I even like leading with that, Hey, Mrs. Analysts, we’ve got a couple, two, two products here I’d like to share with you now with the first one, just as with everything else, hey, it’s not a perfect product. There is some, some exposure here and wanted to give you some research around that. And some understanding that, and overall, I think there’s a lot of positive here that we could leverage and make this really work well for us. Here’s the data around that. And then I’m going to do the same for the second product. How about a week from tomorrow? We touch base and see if you’re willing to make a decision. So give them time, set a deadline, give them data, talk about the risks, critical for Analysts.

Greg:

Yeah, we have a lot of financial advisors that listen to this, so that’s great. But what about for, like when you add, when you think about a lot of the other folks, who listen are our clients, which tend to be business owners, people that are trying to figure this out in their personal relationships. So if you’re thinking from a business owner or someone that you know is thinking about, okay, I wonder which one is my spouse, like, how should I alter my communications? Like I did one of these things in the past and what — they also analyzed my wife, and what I learned was like, she’ll have, like, if I say, let’s go to Italy tomorrow, it freaks her out. If I say like, Hey, why don’t we go to Italy in, whatever, December, she’s all in. So, you know, as you learn your spouse’s communication pattern, it helps you. So let’s think about it from, loved ones and as a business owner, like how would you communicate with them differently? Or how should they communicate?

Ben:

Yeah. And a great book that touches on exactly where you’re saying, Greg is “The Five Love Languages” by Gary Chapman. So I recommend that to any folks, whenever I’m counseling folks, I’m a minister as well. And so when I’m, when I’m counseling folks who are getting ready to get married, that’s, that’s one of the top books that I suggest, to do exactly that. And the research shows, oftentimes, we pick significant others that have different styles than we have. And psychologists argue that part of the reason that may be the case is because they have strengths we don’t have, and we have strengths in vice versa.

Greg, so let’s look at the four quadrants. On the first quadrant, on Analysts. So Analysts very important. They like the details. They want data, they want information. They like taking time making decisions. So it’s very helpful with them to give them the full picture, to help them understand what are the possibilities, what are the options, give them time to digest. And when you think about a loved one that that wants time to kind of think through possible vacation spots, let them see the options. And don’t rush an Analyst. That can be very negative in blowing up trust with an analyst.

For the Director, Director style, they like make faster decisions. They don’t need as much information. And in fact, they can get frustrated if you keep kind of second guessing or bringing back a new option to the table rather than just kind of laying out the full options and, and the reasons why from a very high level. Two to three reasons why you think this is the best option and then executing from there, they’re also very time-sensitive, Directors are. So you want to be very efficient in your communication and interaction.

The third style is the Friend. Friend, just give you a celebrity example of a Friend, like Jennifer Aniston from Friends or Warren Buffet from investor, is a good example of Friends. They’re very relationship oriented. They’re looking for win-wins. So if you can provide them ways and actions that will benefit the good of the all, the good of the family, the good of the community, how this is going to help folks that they care about. That’s where you get real wins with Friends. It’s also very important with Friends that you share the personal side of things and the personal reason for making decisions. And then the fourth and final style is an Extrovert. Someone like an as an Extrovert, like a Whoopi Goldberg or Richard Branson, these folks love taking risks. They love trying new things. It’s important to kind of cast big visions for them. Lead with the positive with Extroverts. Lead, with the upside and the opportunity that gets them motivated. And they also are, it’s very important to give Extroverts kind of positive feedback. So just briefly, those are the four styles that we can kind of look at.

Greg:

It’s really cool. So that helped me in my leadership style. I don’t know if you remember, I took it back— which one am I? Right? I mean, which one am I? So I want to understand who I am, so then I can figure out how I can improve. And so, you said I’m, you mentioned three, do you recall, or do you want me to go through them?

Ben:

Yeah. I mean, you got Director, a Friend, and a little bit of Extrovert.

Greg:

Yeah. And then you said Analyst, but not, not, not in the way that it gets in the way. Right?

Ben:

Right.

Greg:

So, so here, so, so to understand this, here’s where it helps — this is why you need a coach. Here’s where it helped me in my leadership style, you said, your Friend with Director qualities, and that’s diagonal, if you would put it on a chart.

Ben:

Yep.

Greg:

Do you want to tell people like, now they understand this, I’m trying to help our team and Confluence understand so they don’t feel like you know, it’s jerky leadership, but do you want to explain what the challenges are with that?

Ben:

Sure, absolutely. So normally you see, when people have kind of two dominant styles, they’re normally kind of adjacent to each other. So like a Friend/Analyst or Friend/Extrovert or Extrovert/Director or Director/Analyst. In your case, it’s kind of a, it’s diagonal. So one of the challenges that, just as an example, that a Friend-slash-Director would have is Directors can be very bottom line, very task oriented. At time, Directors can be perceived of as real taskmasters, not real caring, not sensitive, not understanding kind of what folks are going through personally and professionally. So that can be a challenge. Now, Friends on the opposite end of the spectrum are very good at understanding what are people going through, connecting, understanding, trying to be supportive and so forth. So just in that example, you can have a Director/Friend who people could possibly feel as there’s a little like Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde there, which, what am I getting at what time? And, and, and kind of uncertainty around why, and what’s the cause and reasoning. That’s just one of the reasons why it’s so helpful to kind of, when you’re working with a team, to have an understanding of what’s everyone’s dominant style. And they can actually say, ah, that’s the Director coming out, or that’s the Friend and so forth.

Greg:

Yeah. Thank you. And by the way, for the listeners, we can, the quadrants. If you want to go through the quadrants, we have them, we have, we have them in our office, reach out to your advisor and give us a call. And we’ll take you through those. You want to do with your family, Personalysis. You know, we can do that also. Where we can sit down and we can help you maybe understand the quadrants a little more detail, and maybe also understand, you know, how to communicate better as a family, or even in your leadership in your business. You know, like what, which one are you? And one of the things Ben says to me is, yeah, you’re everybody’s friend, but you’re very task oriented and very goal oriented. So he said, just help people understand that when you become that, it’s from a good spot. You just want everybody to be the best version of yourself, of themself. So that’s been really helpful to me and the offer to anyone listening to this, we stand ready to help you and/or your family become better communicators, so you can optimize your results. Fair?

Ben:

Love it.

Greg:

Okay. Let’s do real quick thing on feedback.

Ben:

So, you know, and we, we kind of started this discussion around coaching and the importance of it. Just a quick example of the importance of feedback, Greg, is, we were working with a company, and it was a sales organization and leadership kind of identified the two groups that we’re going to go through in the Salesforce. It was going to go through this training and they the, the leader decided to break up the group into two groups and he put the kind of bottom 50% of, of kind of team members to receive the training first. And then the top 50% leaders receive the training second. And so he said, once he kind of got that going, he immediately got a lot of criticism from both groups. The, the lower performers were complaining that they had to go through this training at all. And the top performers were complaining that they had to wait to go second to get the training. So it was—

Greg:

So, top performers want feedback?

Ben:

Yeah.

Greg:

Right? And so like, I don’t know, I was a C student, so I didn’t like report card day, right? I was feedback — I didn’t want it. My brother was like an A student, he liked that day. So bad day for Greg, good day for my brothers and sisters. So feedback is powerful and mirror is powerful. And as leaders, it is so interesting to me, how we, we are challenged to give people feedback. And many times, they want it.

Ben:

Yep.

Greg:

Now there’s a lot of different ways to do feedback, whether it’s self-assessment, 360, in fact, you may want to mention how we’re doing 360 feedback in here. It’s really cool. So if you can just talk about that and why it’s important, why that’s important, but also, if you’re going to give feedback to someone, which is really powerful, and that just means you care enough about them to talk to them about how to improve, are there ways to do that?

Ben:

Yeah. So we’re, we’re using with Greg a 360 tool, which is getting — 360 meaning kind of 360 degrees of a circle, meaning getting feedback from folks that are kind of peers, folks that are above you, folks that are below you. And when you can do that, kind of, holistically, you can really get some rich data to understand what are the opportunities, what are their strengths for someone? And so specifically with—

Greg:

So by the way, my children are doing this also. I mean, I have three girls and a daughter-in-law that is like my daughter, I’m going to tell you, I’m going to have to have some thick skin like, you know what I mean? I get it. But it’ll make us better, so it’s all good.

Ben:

I love it. And, and not many folks that I work with one-on-one asked to have family members involved in their 360. So I love that you’re, you’re open to that. And I can’t wait to dig into that! That’s, that’s awesome. So, so one of the things — look with, with giving feedback, few people love giving critical feedback. I mean, who enjoys going into a room being like, great, I’m going to sit this person down and tell them all the misses they’ve had or all the things that they’re doing that are frustrating me. Very few people actually get excited about it. So it feels very difficult, uncomfortable. And to what Greg was touching on there earlier is, it’s so helpful. I think to have the mindset going in of, Hey, this, giving feedback is one of the greatest gifts I can give this person. Because if I really do love honor and respect them, I want them to do as best they can.

I want them to live as full a life as possible. And you know what, some of what I might be seeing could be inhibiting that full potential. So if I want them to be happy and full here, let me give them some feedback. So that I think it’s important to roll in with the right mindset here when you’re approaching it. And then Greg, I’d be happy to give them a little tool around how I think you can actually deliver feedback.

Greg:

Absolutely.

Ben:

So the tool we developed, and I really love, is this idea of camera check feedback. And it’s this idea of giving feedback that a video camera or your phone could hear or see. And for camera check feedback, we have an acronym it’s, that I developed for camera check. So it’s C, chronology. Give the day and the time when you’re giving someone feedback. So in other words, Ben, today at the meeting, at the family meeting, this morning at the breakfast table.

Okay? So start with chronology. It’s important, so that Ben will then start dialing back cognitively to what happened this morning and has a better frame of reference to understand the behavior. Next, is A, so accuracy. You want to give the specific behavior, what you specifically saw that person do. Now, so many of us at times say things like, oh, you know, he’s just not paying attention to details, or, you know, Ben’s not considerate, or whatever the case may be. It’s not that helpful. You want to dig into the specifics of what you saw. So accuracy really matters in giving the feedback. So state a specific observation, what you saw. Ben, having breakfast today, you know, you were chewing with your mouth open, right? Be specific. Then M, in camera is meaning. Describe the impact of the bad behavior. What’s the impact of Ben chewing with his mouth open? Tell them the impact, because they might not know why that matters.

Hey Ben, you’re doing that. You know, you’re, it’s a bad kind of role model for kids when they’re seeing, and they’re going to start doing the same thing, and that’s not just good kind of manners when they get older. So that’s M. E is enhancement. Tell them how to improve. Don’t just tell them they’re, they’re chewing with their mouth open. Tell them how to improve, say, Hey, Ben, you know, next time, if you’ve had some, it sounds like you were kind of wanting to talk while you’re eating. Hey next time, finish chewing that bite. Then once you’ve kind of finished that bite, then share what you wanted to share that you were really excited about. And then R is a result. What’s the impact of that? That way, you know, everyone’s going to feel better. The girls are going to have a better kind of role model to follow around table manners. And then lastly is A, is give it at once, timely. Don’t wait to give feedback, you know, a month later when you’ve built up five or six things, you want to tell that person. Give them the feedback as you get it. So Greg that’s CAMERA and that’s how you can use it day in and day out.

Greg:

Yeah. That’s powerful, I heard you do that maybe a month or two ago, and I use it internally. And you know, I heard, I heard someone say that the difference between a good coach and a bad coach is like, a good coach— a bad coach is like, you know, to an offensive lineman, Get in the backfield, get in the backfield, get in the backfield! But a good coach tells you how to do it. You take a step and take out your right arm. They tell you step by step how to do it. I think the benefit of CAMERA is it not only allows you to give feedback, it allows you to be the good coach to give effective feedback. Because sometimes that why it’s not received well, right? So, because it’s not effective feedback. It’s just like, Hey, stop doing that, it gets on my nerves. Yeah. Well, I don’t care if chewing with my mouth open gets on your nerves, right? It’s not really taking it through CAMERA. So that’s powerful.

The other thing that’s interesting is, really powerful for people to do self-assessment. I really think part of being successful is being aware and self-aware, and they’re a little different. But, you know, self-assessments obviously very, very powerful also, but you know, feedback’s great, right? Some people like feedback as long as it’s positive, but if we really want to improve, we really need to get feedback. And so, can encourage everyone out there to give feedback and use CAMERA. So thank you so much.

Ben:

Absolutely. And I’ll just say, one other thing about, about feedback is, and you, you mentioned this is, not only give corrective feedback using CAMERA, but also give positive feedback using CAMERA. In other words, don’t just say, Hey, Ben you know, great job in that meeting today, or thanks for helping around the house. Be specific, say, Hey Ben, thanks for doing the dishes. This morning that helped me get the kids ready while you were cleaning up after breakfast. Really appreciate it. Be specific. They’re more likely to repeat that behavior when you tell them specifically what they did and what the impact of that was.

Greg:

Yeah. Two good friends of mine, Tom Bartow and Jason Selk. They do executive coaching, and they talk about self-assessment and sorry, guys, if I get the numbers wrong, but they say, Okay, every day, at the end of the day, you should say, okay, here’s three things I’ve done well today. Be specific. Here’s one thing that did not work that I messed up. And then, here’s one thing I’m going to change for tomorrow. I’m going to do better tomorrow. So and the reason it’s three to one, is to your point Ben, what you, what you dwell on you multiply, right? So there’s three of those and it’ll encourage you — first of all, it’s great for state of mind because you’re focusing on positives — and when you watch athletes, it is interesting, like, you know, if an athlete is being interviewed after a game. Here’s everything we did well. Here’s where we need to improve or something that didn’t work. So they do this naturally, but doing a self-assessment and really taking inventory of the things you do well puts you in a better state of mind, but also it makes sure you repeat those behaviors.

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